RRC Archives

Aliens are kind of a rip if you are looking for an investment in safety, they are far narrower and offer less holding power than a comparable BD or Metolius cam. They are really best suited to granite in my opinion and comparatively sketchy in all but the very hardest sandstone... ie, not the Red.

That said, want to sell them?

Why exactly are do they have less holding power than similiar sized BD and metolius cams? You mean the heads aren't as wide? I would trust my aliens in any type of stone over C3's

Pay no mind, Willy. He probably just wants your aliens.

The width of the head has no real relation to strength. Wider lobes, however, could create a theoretical advantage by spreading the applied force over a larger area. Cams with four lobes can do this better than those with three. This does nothing to lower the over-all force applied to a cam in a fall, it just (in theory) allows the force to dissipate into the rock over a larger area. This is mostly a point of theoretical contention and any real-world results are likely to be inconclusive. Other factors, like the quantity and quality of your gear placements will have a greater effect on the outcome of the situation.

A cam with a narrow head width (not the width of the lobes) will increase the usability to a certain extent. Aliens excel in this area.

CCH used to do some neat stuff with their designs. If you find that kind of thing interesting, that is. They used to use a higher camming angle to increase range, something like 16 degrees, which has (I think) been the highest on the market. Then, they offset the disadvantages of this design by making the lobes from a softer alloy. That's why the lobes on some of the older aliens get chewed up and tend to mushroom. Neat-O, right? Not sure if Fixe is still doing it this way or not.

That's just my experience and in casual hearsay, seen and heard many stories of well-placed Aliens pulling out in soft sandstone (here, Zion, Moab) due to the concentration of load & "crumble" factor. That said, yeah they're likely better than any tcu and I place them in the Red all the time--but not without thinking a little about the consequences of skating & pull-out. Where they really excel IMO is harder sandstone, quartzite & granite--especially in deep placements, pin scars, and aid climbing.... indispensable in Yosemite.

Just my 1 cent...I'm sure they're fine in the Red, but having caught a few fucked up falls in the Creek, I think twice. Never pulled on me (knock on aluminum), but I'm kind of a puss and don't fall that often on gear. Batguano is a lot more of a bad ass and he's still alive, so... don't know if he ever touches thin cracks tho

dustonian wrote:That's just my experience and in casual hearsay,

yep! Wait until the end to see exactly what rips out of this crack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ854rwQZUI

A couple email exchanges that I had with an engineer at Metolius offered a first hand account of real experimentation confirming Batguano's opinion about 3 vs. 4 lobes on sandstone. I use 4 lobes with smaller gear in Metolius and from 0.5 up in BD.

caribe wrote: Wait until the end to see exactly what rips out of this crack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ854rwQZUI

Exactly... you can even see the dreaded "crumble" effect in that video! The rock looks pretty non-sandy too by Indian Creek standards. I've had that happen first-hand several times while belaying, always with yellow alien or smaller... scary as hell but resulting fortunately in only minor injuries, sprained ankles etc. Moral of the story: place significantly more pieces in soft sandstone thin cracks than you would on bomber granite or quartzite!! Especially if using Aliens or TCUs.

wow

it was those stupid jeans that caused the entire incident.

It's your pussy jeans that cause you to bolt everything.

dustonian wrote:...but I'm kind of a puss and don't fall that often on gear. Batguano is a lot more of a bad ass and he's still alive, so...

Could've just posted that & saved a bunch of keystrokes.