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climb2core wrote:Ok, start with this... Why are the crowds a problem?

I don't think they are

pig, your cuppeth of crazy runneth over, well done.

goodguy don't make me go all amish on you and cut that beard!!!! lol...how ya been bro?

(btw, "bro" is lingo that is short for "brother", or a signal of kinship and great admiration for the addressed person..just in case your old fart self didn't know that;))

Andrew wrote:

climb2core wrote:Ok, start with this... Why are the crowds a problem?

I don't think they are

Lol. Then why this post? Seems like some of pigs cup of crazy has spilled into yours...

$2/night camping is the problem. This is breeding the infestation of dirtbag climbers whom are the primary issue.

Artsay wrote:$2/night camping is the problem. This is breeding the infestation of dirtbag climbers whom are the primary issue.

infestation..I like that. and a very worthy point....but calling them dirtbags when they all have smart phones with plans starting at $100 a month is a bit of a misnomer, eh?

right. nobody comes down here because of the cheap camping. it's just icing on the cake.

IMO it's a significant part of the problem. If Miguel's increased camping to $8/night, I think some of the problems we're seeing would go away.
Folks come here for weeks and even months at a time. They "live" at Miguel's instead of go on climbing trips.

Camping is $8/night in Maple Canyon (without water) and there are limited spots. If folks don't have camping figured out, they don't go.
Ever boulder at Hueco Tanks? It's such a hastle to plan and schedule within all the limitations that folks plan annual trips elsewhere.

Look at the cars at Miguel's and do the math.
If it wasn't $2/night, I don't think it wouldn't be as crowded (and IMO if the prices were increased, Miguel's would make more money and would see more paying customers instead of folks living in their cars eating their own food).

People don't go to Maple because it sucks!

Everyone looking for someone to blame... Dirtbags, Miguel's, Perma draws, Ohioans... It is the geology that gave us great rock to climb on and the people who developed it that are to blame. So fix it by getting rid of high quality sport climbs. Well that can't happen... So now what? I guess try to find a way to make the climbing as inhospitable as possible... Shut down Muir to over crowd things much worse, make approaches as epic as possible, import all of Tryle's kin, chop every other bolt to put the sport back in sport climbing, and give the CREW at pat on the back when you see them... Well I guess just Zac.