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Hmmm, generally I don't charge less than 75 an hour for usability analysis but since it is for a good cause…. I apologize for the wandering style of the text below but it is off the top of my head and I am trying to address two issues at the same time. The first is to outline the struggle I went through to find the auction status page. The second is to point out some glaring usability flaws that should be fixed. I know you are doing this as a volunteer and don’t mean to be harsh. Hopefully this will be useful to you. So here we go:

Part of the appeal of designing a site in xhtml is that you design it from a structural standpoint and thus you create an outline of the information you are try to present. Flash designs generally are more from a visual sense so you have to be even more aware of the underlying information architecture.

Lets look at an example of what I did to try to find the auction status page. I know it exists and I want to find it again.

When you open up the url you come to the splash page. This is generally considered bad form for site of this nature. If it were for a multimedia site or a bands site it would be ok. Currently it is keeping me from seeing the information that I seek. Since I am a web savvy user I realize that I can click on it to skip it. This will not always be the case. I would recommend shortening it to just to less than 5 seconds. This will increase load time and force you to condense the message down to the essential bits. Also DEFINATELY add a skip navigation link.

Now I am on the home page. I am met with three different navigation systems and multiple objects vying for my attention. I would recommend choosing something to be visual anchor and using that to base your primary message around. This means you need to define your primary message. At minimum, fix the rollover menu. I would actually say get rid of it. All it does is keep the user from seeing all the choices that they have to navigate through the site. I would rework the nav options down to one system and have all of the options visible. You can have pull down menus but only for the sub levels in the silos.

Back to my case study.... I know the status page has to do with fundraising so I click on the bright orange donation bar. It is a link but it takes me to a donation page (why not have the pay pall and mail details on the page rather than hidden behind another layer of links) not the status page. I see a little arrow with "how much has been donated" next to it and I click it. Upon clicking it, end up with a bigger version of where I started.

Frustrated, I look to the navigation options. The menu drops down and look at the options. I pick donations because that makes sense to me. I explore the options to no avail. Every time I roll over an option multiple menus and choices pop up further confusing me. (Only one pop up at a time) Notice that I do not distinguish between the auction and donations in general.

Finally I look under action and I see the status menu. It took me a lot of steps to find what I was looking for.

I know this is a lot to chew on and I know how much time structural changes can take on a website. You know as well as I do that time is money so I leave you to take from this what you want.

I would HIGHLY recommend that you read Jacob Neilson’s book Designing Web Usability. It will probably help you structure sites that you build in the future.

If you have more specific questions I would be willing to answer them but I don’t know how much more time I am going to be hanging around on the board. Squamish is calling. You can always email me though.

Merrick

I totally understand the frustration, and thank you so much for the feedback.

After reading your info (twice actually) I realize that you are really trying to help, so I will be “gentle” on my reply

You mentioned the lack of integrity of the web site – and thus the need for an outline. The fact is that I couldn’t agree more with you. The site www.thered.org contains a very simple outline, but before I go into details here, let me say that the INTRO and the HOME page have very different purposes – and yes, they are supposed to hide the main outline, which in this case is the main menu.

With Flash, one is able to direct the attention of the user like large banners you see on the highway. Just like on the road, our site will change from time to time.

The INTRO emphasizes what the red.org is all about: The purchase of the Murray Property.

The HOME PAGE currently emphasizes Donations and we emphasize the great and the only ROCKTOBER FEST.

The MENU is structure as follows:
1. Auction (everything you ever wanted to know about the auction for the Red).
2. Sponsorship (everything on sponsorship)
3. Donations (making direct donations, and other information pertaining to donations)
4. Climbing Guide (with the main 7 areas being purchased)
5. Maps & Directions (to get you there)
6. FAQs (Frequently asked questions)
7. Contacts (to reach someone)

Each of the above is structured according to what I assumed would be of interest to the readers.

There are other items on the HOME PAGE… such as Fundraising (which you are right, could be more specific like: Fundraising Events).

You also mentioned that you had difficulties locating the Auction Status. That came to a great surprise to me for the following reasons:
1. The Auction Status is the status of the AUCTION.
2. Since everything is listed on the MENU, why not hit the bright yellow arrow, and point to AUCTION…
3. Once under the Auction, it is listed right there – under Auction Status – from any page.
4. The Auctions Status has been mentioned a number of times on the forum. I believe one post is even entitled Auction Status, where I provided a direct link to it. Just in case, here it is again: http://www.thered.org/auction-status.html

Your other points are very VERY valid though. I will have a skip-intro button generated very soon.

You also mentioned that the intro is way too long… I agree as well.

You mentioned that there are too many navigation systems on the home page… but that is such a delicate subject as you well know. There’s a lot of information, and after lengthy reflection on the matter, it was decided to keep buttons 1-6 (the who, what, when, etc…) so that viewers could have a quick overview of what it was all about without necessarily having to go into FAQs, or Auction, or donations, or anything else. It’s still a little busy compared to my other work, however, I am happy to see that it’s nothing like the busy busy BUSY page of sites such as www.cnn.com or www.paris.com

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide feedback. The key is to satisfy the largest number of viewers humanly possible. Nothing will ever be perfect, but there is always room for improvement…

Thanks again!

Merrick:

I hope that you are getting some good rest. However, if you are not, and if you are really bored, check out the updates:

1. The menu should not give you any more problems (when wishing to get raid of it)
2. When looking at the Climbing Guide, you will notice a simplified navigation to go from route to route with simple buttons - hope you like that.
3. New pictures have been included - check out In-Between (Ex: Big in Japan). More are schedule to be online as soon as I get a chance to get back out on the Murray Property with the camera.

Let me know if you have any other comments / suggestions.

Vic,

Glad to see the changes. I really like being able to navigate through the routes one after another. It is very convenient. I have two small comments on the guide section.

The first is you leave the user stranded and unable to go back once they click on the initial small map in the lower right corner. They can only go into the guide or switch between maps but not back to where they came from. This appears to be becuase the large maps cover the menu and home buttons. I have, in frustration, closed the site a few times since I was not able to navigate backwards.

The second is why make the user click a little map to see a big map which requires clicking again to choose either driving or areas. Why not just present both the driving map and the southern region map on the page when you arrive. Nonetheless I like this section of the site.

As I am sure you know, usability is not about what you intend users to do or even what users tell you they want. It is simply about watching what they do. I have had many instances myself where users have done things I never would of expected and had to change what I thought were obvious methods of navigation. (ie. as I stated before, the distinction between donations and auctions was not apparent to me as a first time user) The navigation on the site, especially regarding the drop down menu is still very confusing to me. And I am a power-user. I think at minimum the quick help menu needs to either be removed or moved to the right of the second layer of menus. I have hardly ever seen pull down menu's that are not strictly hierarchical. (ie. one choice opens up the choices that structurally are below it and nothing else)


I definitely feel your pain as far as the volume and diversity of information that this site needs to represent. Often when I am frustrated with Information Architecture I go to 37 signals and revel in the power and clarity of their redesigns. CNN’s site might be vast and full of information which is packed densely but I have never had a problem navigating their site.

I also want to thank you for the hard work you obviously put into the site and your desire to improve it even more.

Thank goodness that some other tech-heads are able to give Vic feedback! He has been actively seeking feedback about the site and most of us were unable to do it. My response was "dang, that's a really cool site" or "oh my god that's the coolest thing ever." If I have problems, I generally believe it's operator error (cause it usually is in my case). Thanks for the well-thought-out help!

Merrick:
Maps:
When browsing the Maps, we need to keep in mind that we are developing some very different maps. In the meantime, a user looking for directions has something to look at. For this reason, I will not be trying to fix this glitch.

If the user wants to see the online guide, arrives at the 7 areas listed, and is curious about “how to get there” using maps, he/she can view maps. When done with the maps, the viewer can click on the crag of their choice to sort of keep on going with their original idea of viewing the climbing guide. In the future, better maps, and better navigation will be in place.

Instead of closing the entire site, try hitting you F5 key (or simply clicking the climbing area of your choice). Hope this helps

Usability:
To me, usability is all about two things: First, what I assume users will do, and Second, what users actually do. I built this site with a very different menu – a drop down menu. It’s new to people (online) but in my opinion should be incorporated much more often in web site design. Here are the main reasons:
1. Windows / Mac operate on the same exact principles: They have drop down menus. Look at your start button, and look at what it does. The main difference with my drop-down menu is that is allows users to almost see through it – just so that they still have an idea of where they currently are on the page.
2. The greater majority of web sites have a menu that is somewhat expended. This means: It takes up space on the page (taking up space at the top, or commonly on the left (like www.rockclimbing.com).

Just because it has not been done often online doesn’t automatically make it wrong. More than 9300 people have watched the site so far. Few have missed the menu, less will in the future since the menu became a bright Yellow Arrow. More people should enjoy this newy-ty (I know, that too is not a word, but I like it LOL).

On the exact same issue, any one putting a web site together will have to see some facts:
1. Does it work?
2. Can the majority of the people navigate easily?
3. Are we getting the picture across?
4. etc… etc…

And we have to keep in mind that it will not please everyone. For instance, you may be a fan of www.cnn.com and 37signals, but I really do not like either design at ALL. That’s my choice, and that’s why my work differs from most people.

I don’t think that being different is always a bad thing, that’s usually how we can evolve with new theories.

I do thank you for the immense input you have given me, and please note that I always take assume something could be changed and made better.

Here are a few quick comments off the top of my head.

#1 telling me to hit f5 makes no sense. If you were sitting next to every person using the site you would not have to think about usability. You could just navigate through the site for the person. As sprawga said, "If I have problems, I generally believe it's operator error (cause it usually is in my case)." This is not usually the case. It is generally because something is overly complicated and confusing to the user.


#2 pull down menu's are not new by any means. I have designed pull down menus for web sites since 1999 and they have been around even longer than that. They are very common. My complaint is twofold in there use on this site. No pull down menu I have ever used on a Mac, pc, Linux GUI, palm, website or other electronic device has spewed multiple menu's when you role over a higher-level choice. But you can do whatever you want. The second is that you do not have so much info on your pages that you cannot afford to take the primary navigation out of the pull down and just use the pull downs for information lower in the silos. Why hide the number one people look for on a site? The ability to navigate is so essential. How many sites have you used where the primary navigation is hidden? Not many, why do you think that is? (not to mention not carrying the branding through on every page but that is a different issue) But again do what you want.

I guess I am getting frustrated because I am trying to give objective feedback and I feel you are defending the site. That makes no sense. Could you imagine that after a usability test if the designers came in the lab with the results and proceeded to explain to the participants why what they did was wrong or other ways to do it? How do you know if the majority of people can navigate easily? What sort of usability testing have you done? How do you know you are getting the picture across?

If you have the time and really want to improve the sites navigation don't listen to my comments, run your own usability test. For free. Go get your mom and your uncle and a bunch of people who don't know about the site. Then sit them down in front of it and give them a list of tasks. (i.e. 1 identify what this site is about 2 find the auction status page etc...) Don’t tell them a thing not even if they ask you. Watch what they do and write down notes about where they have trouble. Change the interface accordingly.

I don't care for CNN's design. I think it is cramped and busy, however it works. It works because they have spent millions and millions of dollars on usability design. They have tested and retested. Changed and tweaked. You think you have a lot of information to pack into your page, look at them. Spend a half an hour and try to lay out that information in a different way.


I think I am done with critiquing the site as I have other things to do, and this is sucking up my time. Good luck and thanks for the hard work.

I really don't see why you are jumping the gun and getting all bent out of shape. It's just a web site for cyring out loud!

I am not defending it, I stated that we were getting more info, and for this reason I was not going to add / substract anything from the maps until then.

I also mentioned that drop down menu is very new... yes, new as to the way it operates because few people use a single button for a drop down menu. I am not refering to drop down menus in general, as these have been created for a long long time.

Relax a little. There's no fire, we are all getting better by the day - even after years of experience. That's the beauty of it - so beauty shouldn't be crusified, or bashed, and anger has no place.

Thanks for the overall comments though.