RRC Archives

caribe wrote:I've been plugging gear at the Red whenever I can talk a partner into it. My latest kick has been wild, unknown and dirty onsight from the ground up. 5.9 is 5.10 + headgame.

I'm pretty sure you understand why I hardly ever graded anything in the Red. On a first ascent, or a rare repeat you encounter so much dirt, spiderwebs, loose rock, & etc., that you really only have a rough idea of where the level of difficulty will settle out once a route has had enough traffic to clean it up. That's assuming you haven't prepped the route first.

Good on all of you! Shamis - sorry to hear you got rained out on the Naked Edge, it is truly a world class route. Right around the corner is the Diving Board, another incredible line, even if it is on slightly less wonderful rock. If you're up for a gnarly off-width crux right at the end of two continuously overhanging pitches of 5.10 you might want to check it out next time you're there. Summer thunderstorms come in really fast in Eldorado It's always wise to bail any time there's the threat of lighting. Some years back a guy was struck and killed just after topping out on the Edge.

Yeah we thought about trying to wait out the storm...but the forecast was grim. Combined with the knowledge that the only fatality on the route was from lightning we decided the best option was to go drink beer. Pretty sure we made the right choice.

LK Day wrote: Summer thunderstorms come in really fast in Eldorado It's always wise to bail any time there's the threat of lighting. Some years back a guy was struck and killed just after topping out on the Edge.

About 15 years ago I met a guy while climbing at Mount Lemmon... He was introduced to me by my climbing mentor. Anyways, after talking for a bit my mentor asked him to tell me about his experience while climbing. I am 99% positive it was on the Edge. Apparently he and his buddy were near the top when an unexpected Thunderstorm blew in. They started a rapid descent in pouring rain. Lightning moved into the area and struck the rock by where they were rapping down. There were sheets of water coming down the cliff which he said acted as a conductor. His friend was instantly killed. He was blown off the rock and fell some distance before becoming tangled in his own rope. When he came to he was stuck precariously and unable to descend. He could see people retreating out of the valley and began to yell to them. No one could hear him above the rain and the storm. Apparently, one of the last groups to leave somehow either spotted or heard him and came to his rescue.

At this point my mentor asked him to show what he had as a reminder from that day... He lifted his his shirt and he has massive burns on his chest and again on his back. Apparently his rack that he had slung over his shoulder had acted like a conductor and shot the electricity through his body. Quite a story... must be the same one.

whoa!

We've been slinging gear at every moderate line in the Red this summer and it's been awesome. Look forward to putting some work in now that the sweat factor is down. Nevermore and Jungle Beat are next on the list. I am also dead set on doing some climbing out at Half Moon. If it weren't for laying out of school to go rappelling there, I may have never started climbing.

The highlight so far has been climbing Caver's Route with my 10 year old son. It was a proud day!

lk day...do you personally differentiate between trad routes and gear routes?

That's a good question, piggy. I'll post a reply later this evening.

Most all rock routes employ some kind of gear, generally fixed gear on sport routes, and removable gear on "trad" climbs. Of course there are climbing areas where routes have been done very much in the "traditional style" - ground up, all pro placed on lead - that were protected 100% (or very nearly so) with bolts. Snake Dike on Half Dome comes to mind. There are hundreds if not thousands of routes like this in California alone. It has been a long time since I was active in the Red River Gorge, but I believe that pretty much all sport routes in the Red are protected with bolts and almost all trad routes are protected primarily with what locals call "gear" (chocks and cams). Even though I drilled three or four anchors on "trad routes" during my time there, I'd say that in the Red River Gorge the terms "gear" and "trad" are pretty much interchangeable. Do you know of an exception?

Sure, true "traditional" climbing on new/modern routes is a lost art these days. With some notable exceptions, most new "gear-protected" routes are approached, cleaned, and inspected from the top-down on rappel..."sprad" climbing, a distinctly non-traditional style. I've established about 25 trad routes in the Red now, 10 "sprad", lotsa sport, and about 100 in both styles in the west on granite, and as I'm sure you recall, the Corbin sandstone is NOT granite...it is typically dirtier, looser, & more blessed with deathblocks. That said, up to a certain point, you can deal with this stuff on lead, with each climber having their own level of "choss tolerance"...for me that threshhold between ground-up trad climbing and top-down "sprad" comes around 5.11 or so, depending on the pro and looseness variables.

In the end it doesn't really matter that much, although it's interesting to look at the sportification of trad climbing and amusing how some folks treat their sprad routes like sport routes with a sense of ownership and "project-like" entitlement because they rapped and drilled an anchor (usually too low)... come on fellas, who's to say it wasn't climbed 30 years ago by some quiet hardcores who didn't feel the emotional need to scrub everything into oblivion, and climbed carefully around loose blocks as was the style BITD?

Very enlightening there dustonian. I had no idea.
Seems pretty clear that for those who establish "sprad" routes, their experience was not at all "traditional" but for those who repeat the route it's "trad". Unless, that is, they rap and plug gear before the "send". In which case they've created a sport climbing experience.