RRC Archives

well shit man, what do you want? belayer means more than the guy who sprays about your send.

c-foot wrote:Didn't the climber know you shouldn't fall until your belayer says he/she is ready? Please belay me with an ATC. Leave your fancy mechanical belay device home.

are you an idiot? have you ever got extensive experience using a "fancy mechanical belay device"? any style belay device is only as good as the people using them. If you use a grigri correctly, which isn't that hard, they offer a few advantages that a tube style device simply doesn't. it sounds like the accident at the load wouldn't have happened if a grigri/sum/cinch/etc was in use.

What about the other accident Clevis? Normally you are of the opinion that it is always the belayers fault... Just curious as to your take on that one. Not hating on ya.

obviously my first post was entirely made up. I hate to hear that about sean, hope he is ok. The other guy at the load should have held on, total belayer screw up.

hey folks....WAKE the FUCK UP! what the fuck does it matter what joe (this is not an attack on you joe...my guess is we'd end up on the same page on this) thinks. neither of these accidents had shit to do with the device (though a mechanical assist device may have prevented the one or res.) put the blame where it belongs.....on the people. usually it's on the belayer...sometimes it's on the climber. COREY (do not share a rope with this person) tried his best to kill his climber and sean got stuck in a situation above his experience level and didn't handle it appropriately. An A+++ belay keeps him off the ground and got a C- belay at best. With that said, Sean had several chances to get himself out of that mess before he ever left the wall.

one time I came off while clipping the third. It was a precarious clip and of a notorious reputation. My belayer jumped back and took in slack at same time. As I was going past and he was going up, my feet caught on the rope. I esentially arrested my own fall when I hit the rope. My belayer was there fighting the good fight. No broken bones...

The way climbs are bolted can make a difference. "Stick" it, when in doubt.

one of the most hilaroius scences occured last year when this girl said it was against her ethics to stick clip. She whiffed the beginning of ROCS and fell on her face breaking her nose. It's a hell of a thing to have to wear the results of your "ethics" on your face!

I think the world is 80% over-populated anyway, so keep climbing!

stix wrote: An A+++ belay keeps him off the ground and got a C- belay at best. With that said, Sean had several chances to get himself out of that mess before he ever left the wall.

I have had the rope get stuck on my thumb after missing a clip before. For sure it was my bad, but it can happen to anyone, in that situation, especially from bolt 2, if the belayer kept him from landing on his head with a spot, then the belayer at least gave an A- belay. I agree with all your statements about the mother load accident

stix wrote:hey folks....WAKE the FUCK UP! what the fuck does it matter what joe (this is not an attack on you joe...my guess is we'd end up on the same page on this) thinks. neither of these accidents had shit to do with the device (though a mechanical assist device may have prevented the one or res.) put the blame where it belongs.....on the people. usually it's on the belayer...sometimes it's on the climber. COREY (do not share a rope with this person) tried his best to kill his climber and sean got stuck in a situation above his experience level and didn't handle it appropriately. An A+++ belay keeps him off the ground and got a C- belay at best. With that said, Sean had several chances to get himself out of that mess before he ever left the wall.

Hey, Stix. I don't think anyone has said it is the fault of the equipment. It is always the belayer and/or climbers fault. Normally, most accidents preventable by a good belay. But not always. You said he had rope out in hand when he fell. That can make it tough to pull up enough slack. Did the belayer run back after he came off? What is the distance ground to first compared first to second?

My point is this... most belayers tend to be blamed for decking. I think falling at the second bolt with rope in hand would tend to put more of the error in judgement/safety on the climber. You gotta be aware of decking potential and be confident you can make the clip when you pull for slack. It sounds like he was gripped out and should have been taking instead.

That being said, a great belay can make all the difference. I was clipping the second bolt and had my toe pop out of a pocket while clipping. I barn-doored, hung on with one hand as long as possible and then fell. My belayer took up a yard of slack and ran backwards. They saved me from decking by inches. But that is different than not being able to make a second bolt clip because you are gripped and sketching.

But again, this is all second hand information and I was not there, so I really have no opinion about the actual situation. I am generalizing to falling at the second bolt with slack out in general.

Motherlode... 100% belayer if it happened as described.

Interesting. Grigri would help with belayer hitting wall. ATC would help with pulling in slack faster when leader falls with clipping slack out. Although it really sounds like the belayer of the dude with the slack out was fucking retarded, it is interesting to note that if you swapped belay devices on the 2 incidents you may have had nobody decking.