RRC Archives

there's a fine line between 'pants pooping' and death.

it's perfectly reasonable for someone to wonder what is a 'good' placement and a potentially lethal one.

heath wrote:Why would you ever want to take a fall on purpose?

practice

heath wrote:Go out with someone who knows what's up and let them show you whats up.

Ah, blind trust---the favorite type of complacency of the Red River Gorge

Mind if I belay you next time? I've never caught a fall, but don't worry....... I know what's up.......


......and so did every other belayer up until the moment their climber hit the ground.

Pretty sure either way you go it's blind trust. You let someone who you think knows show you or you plug gear without ever falling on it and assume it's good. I imagine this is the reason you can go out on a holiday weekend to Fortress Wall and still find plenty of open routes. I've got 2 guys (one 55 and the other 60) that took me under their wings. I've had takes on placement but still yet to take a fall. I do agree though that the only way to really trust that a placement is good is to fall on a few and see them work. Sounds like you have the right idea of going with mixed route to test them out. Global Village or Fortress Wall would be my suggestions. Maybe plug one just above the anchors and bomb away.

Why not aid a route and bounce test everything? You'll get to analyze many, many more placements. Along those lines, what would falling on a piece above a bolt tell you? That one of your pieces held? Will that instill confidence in you? If so, don't you think that a sample size of one or two placements is a bit small to judge your general gear placing ability? Hence, I suggest aiding up a route with rigorous bounce testing.

Agreed, most of what I know about "good" vs. "bad" gear came from aid climbing. That said, I blew a tricam directional while bolting on Saturday that popped me square in the mouth and chipped three teeth... but hey, at least I KNEW it was a bad piece!! Now I know to close my mouth when lowering onto sketch gear while bolting the super steeps... isn't learnin fun!?!

I'll third the "go aid climbing" suggestion. Climbing "so easy you could solo it" routes to learn trad doesn't do much for learning gear placements, and taking practice falls before you have a full idea of what constitutes a good or bad placement seems like unnecessarily contrived danger to me. I learned what works and doesn't by aiding steep, bolt protected seams with ample placements for microcams and stoppers, clipping the bolts for pro, but moving solely on the removable gear.

There has to be some blind trust in climbing. Take bolts as the ultimate example.

I have shown a few people the ropes as far as gear climbing goes and I have never had anyone deck, or even have a piece blow.

Just let us know on here when you're going to be doing all of this falling, and extensive gear bouncing. That way someone can get all the gear you weld into the sandstone.

this is why sport climbing is so popular

I agree also with aid climbing, even if you do it on TR. I have placed and weighed more gear in a day of aid climbing then most trad climbers do in a life time...

Also it is slow and you can really try some funky placements and see what works.

The sport trad idea is kind of stupid.

I agree with aid climbing. Make sure you look down and away when bounce testing a piece, in case it pops out. It's not a bad idea to wear glasses also.