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This does suggest a good question though: does any one know of any recorded *properly placed* bolts in *good rock* that have pulled out? As far as I know, given these two conditions, there has never been a bolt that actually pulled out.

First bolt on Convicted. Rust + age + outward pull + hundreds/thousands (?) of static-ky whippers. I'm sure it was properly placed to begin with and the rock is fine. Plenty of old quarter-inchers on granite have failed after a couple of decades of corrosion... and technically speaking, they were properly placed to begin with & in good rock. That said, I have NEVER heard of a properly placed glue-in WAVE bolt failing!!

To repeat...www.teamsuckclimbing.com.

heacocis wrote:This does suggest a good question though: does any one know of any recorded *properly placed* bolts in *good rock* that have pulled out? As far as I know, given these two conditions, there has never been a bolt that actually pulled out.

Is there really any "good rock" in KY

YHBT

Here is an example of what can happen if you don't know what the hell you are doing. Never lower or top rope with the rope through webbing.

I would suggest finding someone at your gym who knows what they are doing outside and bribing them with beer to come with you.

'Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills' is a great resource. If that book does not go into the depth you want, the authors provide a comprehensive list of furhter reading material that will. Check out Rick Webers guide to bolting in the red, which can be found on the muir valley website to understand the basics of bolting.

Andrew wrote:What climbing website have you been hanging out at that suggest that bolts pulling is a common thing?

I haven't seen anything that says it's common, and I've only read about a few instances of it. I'm just trying to account for as much as possible so that I can feel comfortable about my safety.

I have been researching the different types of bolts out there and what types of rock they are suitable for. I guess my fear is that some guy who doesn't know what they're doing bolted some routes w/ bolts that aren't suitable for sandstone, or didn't check the integrity of the rock. I'm not really familiar with the amount of inspection and maintenance that goes on at RRG (or anywhere, for that matter). I figured you guys would be a good resource to see how trustworthy the fixed protection is, and if there are any areas that I should avoid.

All the well traveled moderate crags you'll be going to for the most part will be over-equipped with brand new shiny ugly bolts. You should really focus on your belaying, partner's belaying, knots, rope management, falling technique, anchor/route cleaning, clipping, rappelling, and lastly climbing technique and stop worrying about bolts for the next several years.

One thing: Do NOT ever thread your rope directly through a bolt hanger OR glue-in eyebolt!!

Oh yeah, watch out for any route with the name 'Trummel" in the FA

It was a long time ago but I was around when the bolt blew out on Sand at Roadside. It failed the rock around the bolt to about 1/2" from the end of the bolt. The bolt then bent and pulled out the rest of the way. The belayer was slammed into the first bolt and the climber stopped a few feet from the ground. Close call but everyone was ok. The climber put the bolt on his necklace by the hanger as a souvenir. He explained to me that he was running laps and flamed out, that was the only reason he fell. I think bolters since then have learned of the problem with soft stone and leaving a bad bolt in place for others to use. Not that it won't happen again though. I have since ran into that climber again out in Red Rocks. He even resoled my shoes.

Yes, the Trummel dude is a work of art....steer clear.

A few years ago when I was bolting at curbside, I twisted the head off of a Powers bolt. Pretty spooky actually, as I wasn't anywhere near sufficient torque. it was the third bolt on a new route, so if it would have failed on a fall the consequences would have been very ugly.

I took it to Rick and Liz to look at.....I think it was decided that it was an anomoly in the metal. Rick, do you still have that bolt?