Accident tally??

[climb2core]

Caribe is right, I usually rest my neck when my climber is resting. But the climber would never dever deck because he failed to tell me he was back on the wall, he may get short roped though

We all look down when the climber is resting. I always tell my climber to tell me when they are ready to start and then confirm that I heard them. If my climber doesn't tell me, I give them shit and ask them too.

[pigsteak]

caribe..I disagree in that the latest accident the climber had not climbed with the guy belaying before. The climber should accept his part of the blame in that. Never trust your life to someone you do not know. Pay his medical bills? Crazy talk.

[caribe]

Once I had a belayer misfeed a rope backwards through a gri-gri. They caught me when I fell because they were using the brake hand properly. However, it was MY fault as much as it was their fault as I didn't visually inspect and confirm that it was ok.

Yes, if protocol was broken when you were both on the ground you are partially to blame. We are to check each other; that is SOP to optimize safety. This statement has little to do with the point being debated. When 'on belay' is called you are on belay until 'off belay' is called. You should be able to fall and be caught at anytime between those two commands. This issue is ~100% bad belaying.

[caribe]

caribe..I disagree in that the latest accident the climber had not climbed with the guy belaying before. The climber should accept his part of the blame in that. Never trust your life to someone you do not know.

Yes, you are right. I would not give the other end of the rope to a five-year-old or a circus clown. Sometimes people look capable when they are not. The fatal incident at the Darkside last year was the same issue: bad belaying from a bad belayer chosen blindly from the masses. Accepting blame for trusting the unknown is something I can get on board with. Accepting blame in this instance because you didn't say something while you were climbing is ENTIRELY another matter.

[climb2core]

Yes, 100% bad belaying. But how can you ignore this question: "Was their anything that the climber could have reasonably done to prevent himself from getting hurt?" If yes, then there has to be some culpability on the end of the climber. Telling your belayer when climbing again IS standard practice and this is EXACTLY the reason why it is done. Communication becomes even more important when you don't know your belayer. Also, my point about the gri gri is relevant... It is about the climber taking an active role in THEIR safety and not assuming anything, ever. Build safety and redundancy into all aspects of your climbing and almost all of the accidents would have been prevented. Period.

[pigsteak]

agreed caribe. Notice I never said that his lack of verbal communication was to blame for the accident. I was merely mentioning one thing I personally do to make sure I am on the same page with my belayer at all times.

[climb2core]

agreed caribe. Notice I never said that his lack of verbal communication was to blame for the accident. I was merely mentioning one thing I personally do to make sure I am on the same page with my belayer at all times.

The blame for the accident it multi-factorial...

1.) Pick your belay partner better
2.) BAD BELAYING. Letting go of the brake hand is assumption here,
3.) Tell your belayer when you are climbing. It is no accident that Piggie and I do this. We do it because we KNOW that it increases our chances of having a safe belay.

Last comment and I will shut up with my opinion. The belayer failed to do his job and I would be absolutely pissed at him for nearly killing me. But inside, I would be kicking myself for not speaking up. If I were the belayer, I would feel that it was my fault.

[caribe]

agreed caribe. Notice I never said that his lack of verbal communication was to blame for the accident. I was merely mentioning one thing I personally do to make sure I am on the same page with my belayer at all times.

Well you have belayed me many times before. You know that I never shut up. It is crazy not to talk to your belayer.

[Clevis Hitch]

agreed caribe. Notice I never said that his lack of verbal communication was to blame for the accident. I was merely mentioning one thing I personally do to make sure I am on the same page with my belayer at all times.

The blame for the accident it multi-factorial...

1.) Pick your belay partner better
2.) BAD BELAYING. Letting go of the brake hand is assumption here,
3.) Tell your belayer when you are climbing. It is no accident that Piggie and I do this. We do it because we KNOW that it increases our chances of having a safe belay.

Last comment and I will shut up with my opinion. The belayer failed to do his job and I would be absolutely pissed at him for nearly killing me. But inside, I would be kicking myself for not speaking up. If I were the belayer, I would feel that it was my fault.

Key word...belayer