RRC Archives

So sorry to hear about the recent accident in Muir Valley.

Rick is so correct, the sport is gaining in popularity at an increasingly fast rate.

And the "new comers" just need to be more aware of the serious nature of the sport. They get trained for indoor climbing and then decide to venture outdoors to a totally different environment. They just lack refined experience when outdoors, and should seek out good training or proper advice and etiquette, and be reminded of how serious the outdoor level can be compared to the safer indoor crags.

And I'm sure this may not be the case here as most of you have been discussing. Good belayers, and climbers, must be vigilant and focused entirely every second they are on the rock and be totally consumed in what they are doing.

And lets face it, Rick and Liz have without a doubt the safest and best maintaied area in the country and anywhere else for that matter. So it's up to us climbers to continue to make it safer for us and all those around us.

Francesco:
Mi dispiace tanto parlare il vostro incidente. Ma sono felice che sei va bene e tornare a casa ancora una volta.

Lo sono una guida e trascorrere il tempo in Italia. Portare gruppi a Italia in inverno per lo sci e divertimento. Ho avuto un folto gruppo di 38 persone in Val Gardena e Selva nel mese di gennaio.

Sono felice che hai avuto un buon momento e come l'area di Red River Gorge.

Recuperare il bene e che Dio vi Benedica,

Ciao,
Bill

I do think the best way to belay with a gri gri and I practice a method where my hand never leaves the break end of the gri gri and I don't ever hold the cam open to feed slack. That being said, I fail to see how the gri gri would fail without a hand on the break end. I solo climb with the gri gri all the time and it has caught hundreds if not thousands of times with no hands on the device at all. I do tie backup stopper knots to keep me off the deck but have never used one to date.

Did he have his hand on the cam holding it open to feed slack and let go too late? Did he have any burns on his hands? Did he thread it backwards? Was it a skinny rope?

I ask the question because I have a hard time believing that someone can catch a fall with their hand enough to keep the cam from engaging unless he had some severely burnt hands.

Hope you heel well!

use a thin rope in a gri gri and you'll get the idea of slippage. my worn out gri gri slides down the rope when I am bolting, and I am a fat dude. too many variables

Sounds like another accident that could've been prevented by letting go with both hands.

Francesco, wishing you a quick and full recovery, hope you are able to return to the Red soon... Thanks for your post and positive outlook, maybe it will be of benefit to someone.

Shamis wrote:Sounds like another accident that could've been prevented by letting go with both hands.

Think holistically about this Gary. Programming a 'let go' response is going to be very difficult for the human to hardwire. We want to grab, catch and hold when something valuable is falling precipitously. Now add the need to have versatility with other belay devices and cross that with your experience driving a manual transmission and an automatic interchangeably. Sometimes we miss and step on a clutch that is not there. You are simply not considering the human element in your design of best protocol. As such your advice is just downright dangerous.

TradMike wrote: Did he have his hand on the cam holding it open to feed slack and let go too late? Did he have any burns on his hands? Did he thread it backwards? Was it a skinny rope?
I ask the question because I have a hard time believing that someone can catch a fall with their hand enough to keep the cam from engaging unless he had some severely burnt hands.

I have seen people at the crag with the hand always around / ~caressing the grigri while belaying. In this state and shocked out of conversation by the fall, the human animal seizes the device. You will do it; I will do it and your uncle Bob will do it. It is the primal response. The primal nature of this response is why Shamis' advice above won't work when the belayer is truly surprised.

caribe wrote: ~caressing the grigri while belaying.

Ohhhhhh, baby.

keep your brake hand on the brake end and this wouldn't be a problem.

Communicating and confirming your belayer is with you would also have prevented the accident. Not that this fact in any way excuses your belayer taking their hand off the brake end of the rope.