Iniquity vs. Cell Block Six

[Shamis]

Cell block requires much more endurance. The start of iniquity is very hard, but Kipp felt that it wasn't right to rate it based solely on the 2 hard moves right off the ground. I believe there have actually been 2 foot chips that broke since the initial bolting so the start is easily a letter grade harder than it was originally, if not 2. I think I actually recall kipp saying he thought iniquity would be 11d if it wasn't for the start...

[512OW]

I re-did Iniquity after the break, and thought the start was easier than it was before.

[Green3]

That's just you getting stronger buddy.

[pigsteak]

alright, for the real story...shamis is right..the start of iniquity got harder after bolting...if you look closely, you'll see some darker rock along the ramp before bolt one..there used to be a huge jug rail along there. my buddy kevin todd pulled that off screwing around when it was first bolted. voila, a boulder start to a jug haul. call block, imo, cell block six, is decidedly harder. talk to brad weaver about the grades..if i recall the sotry correctly in my old age, I had just finished bolting the crag, 8 news routes in all and not a single one had ever been touched. weaver, starts down the crag right to left and quickly disposes of the lines first go..I had to finally cut him off after shiva and tapeworm so i wold have some projects after all my work...sadly, most of them ended up being more work than I bargained for, and I called in the backups to get the FA's.....

[Green3]

Thanks for the story Kipp, not to mention single-handedly putting that crag up. I think our climbing styles are very different, as we have debated the grades of a few climbs, usually agreeing to disagree. Those opening moves on Iniquity are hard for me. I'm working harder on those moves than on any crux of a RRG 12b even with pump factored in. Maybe even harder than on the Cell Block crux. To each his own I suppose...

[pigsteak]

josh thurston bolted the far left one, and andrew and yasmeen held a gun to my head to bolt mello yellow.

[JR]

I know Iniquity was graded before the break at the start, but after the break, those moves easily warrant 12c. It probably won't ever get changed because everyone is so stubborn to upgrade and seems to just love sandbags (both are often an ego thing, though not always, sometimes it's an absurd sense of tradition, which even I fall prey to, e.g. Soul Ram), but those moves are piss hard for a 12b, definitely not on the "easier side of the grade." Of all the 12b's in the red, I can't think of moves harder. It doesn't matter that it's straight off the ground. You put a 12b-max climber on that and they get shut down, unless they are a boulderer, but then they probably don't clip the chains, because it's pumpy even with the no-hands.

Why is arguing about grades so damn fun? On a separate note, I do think Tapeworm is 12c (Unless you are height impaired, then it's whatever you say it is, cuz you're a bad ass for climbing it.)

You giveth and you taketh away!!

So all three are 12c. No WAIT! All 5 are 12c in your opinion. Starting to sound like that Oil Crack crag area...

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... rview_data
Check out Grade Distribution. Inexplicably there are certain grades that we favor. 11B and 12a are the most obvious. I always thought most 5.12 climbers throw that 12c around too much but the graph shows 12b and 12c are almost dead locked.

So what's up???

Is it the bolters? Pigsteak's fitness tops out at around 12c so you end up with Midnight surf. Allah's fitness tops out at around 13b so you end up with Purgatory. This doesn't explain the shit ton of 10a's and b's or the 11b's.

Is it the rock? Didn't Horatio have some formula for grades. Length / Angle X Difficulty = Grade or some bullshit like that. Some angles and length definitely lend themselves to certain ranges. Think Undertow wall, Madness Cave, Darkside, Gold Coast, Solar Collector most of these walls have the majority of their grades within a full number.

Is some of it Ego like Green3 suggests? That would certainly explain all the 10a's and 12a's. Who wants to sink that much time and money into a route that is graded that bastard child of grades 9+. Or worse you are trying to bolt your next proj and it ends up being "only" 5.11 but it felt kinda hard because you spent hours brushing and chipping(oops I mean cleaning) the route.

O yeah!!! I do love talking grades Green3!!

[Yasmeen]

andrew and yasmeen held a gun to my head to bolt mello yellow.

Thanks for humoring me and bolting something I could do at Midnight Surf, Piggie.

[Yasmeen]

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... rview_data

Paul is so psyched that you took the time to analyze that page, JR.

[JR]

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your super computing powers. To me, you are in the rarefied air of 5.14 computing. I wish you would come to Cincinnati's Rock Quest so I can High Five you until you laugh. Also, I would rip that silly hat off your head, so you would chase me.

Love Justin. Oops! I always do that. Love, Justin.