Oil Spill Outrage

Post by **pigsteak** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:52 pm

I am on injured reserve Bcombs..otherwise I'd take you up on it. what I see is we all justify our consumption instead of facing the reality head on...

like Cap'n said, even our ropes and shoes are made of oil by products...it seesm trivial for me to feel "outrage" but tehn pack my bags for teh carag every weekend..just seems to smug on my part.

and voting...seriously? we got the change President and it is business as usual..what do we do next?

Post by **TradMike** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:55 pm

George Carlin - Saving the Planet ... The planet is fine, the people are fucked

Post by **anticlmber** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:57 pm

remeber pigshit, it is never an overnight change. well, other than a coup.

why would solar/wind not meet our needs? sure if we stay far in the excessive range of all the lights on and a t.v. playing for the dog, but if people reduce and reuse where possible and money is actually put into the system why can't it work?? also, there is more "renewable" energy than just sun and wind so it is possible.

can't produce food without fossil fuel??? have you never seen a back yard garden my friend??

Post by **bcombs** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:09 pm

Just got back from Germany where solar panels are on many rooftops. Of course, every building isn't air conditioned to 70 degrees either.

According to them, the panels feed back into the main system and usually yield a profit within 3-5 years, but they break even right out of the gate. The buildings they are attached to still use power from the grid only (they aren't powered by solar themselves), but their cost is offset by the payment they get from what they supply back into the system. In many cases it is the power company that owns the panels and they supply credits to the land owner.

One guy said the only drawback is that fire fighters have to kill power to the building before using the firehose. I guess pouring water on something that is feeding power back to the main system is a bad thing.

Just thought it was interesting.

Post by **Clevis Hitch** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:40 pm

I'm telling you guys the past is the future. When we used wood and wood burning devices our lives were on a 1:1 ratio with respect to carbon exchange. The things that they are trying today to extract gas from wood....now thats smart.

Alot of "end-timers" think that armagaddon is fought over oil.

Post by **michaelarmand** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:25 pm

anticlmber wrote: can't produce food without fossil fuel??? have you never seen a back yard garden my friend??

Gardens are great anti, but they don't feed the masses. Industrial nations such as the US depend on heavy machinery for food production, and then we have to transport these goods. If oil just magically vanished - there would be worldwide famine.

Post by **Clevis Hitch** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:05 am

I don't come down on either side of this. I know that if the power goes out for a couple of weeks that I'll have enough food for me and mine. I know that if the power goes out for a few years, I'll have enough for me and mine. I also know that if it goes out and stays out, I'll have enough for me and mine. I also have get out of town contingencies and get out of the country contingencies. Ad naseum.

Most people don't have 10 gallons of fresh water on hand. They don't know that you can shit in a bucket and cover it with cat litter. Aint nothin worse than a toilet full of shit and no way to flush it! They don't have 10 lbs of beans and rice.( about 30 meals). In fact if the lights go out they're about three days from third world poverty(the amount of time it takes for the freezer to thaw out) Nah scratch that. In the third world they can heat up a cup of water, they might not have anything in it, but they can heat it up.

If you look around your apt and every appliance you see is electric including your stove.....

Post by **pigsteak** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:18 am

...thank an electrician?

Post by **Clevis Hitch** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:44 am

na.. I'm gonna say not. Electricity on the scale that we have it now is a fad.

Post by **anticlmber** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:38 pm

michaelarmand wrote:
anticlmber wrote: can't produce food without fossil fuel??? have you never seen a back yard garden my friend??
Gardens are great anti, but they don't feed the masses. Industrial nations such as the US depend on heavy machinery for food production, and then we have to transport these goods. If oil just magically vanished - there would be worldwide famine.

also...there is already worldwide famine and in this country there are those without.

but...if everyone or most everyone had there own garden or a community garden it would not take fossil fuels. people tend to forget that less than a hundred years ago this nation flourished without most of what we have today. a horse carried a wagon full of food just a few miles to a local market, you washed clothes on a washboard, and a microwave was a thing of science fiction.

true, you may not get your avacados, some citrus, and exotics; but you wouldn't starve. its amazing the amish are still going strong after so many centuries without fossil fuel. but what do they know?