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Wow, Rick... You're better prepared for accidents than any other climbing area in the country! Now if people could just frikkin learn how to belay...

We went to climb on Sunday at Johnny's and stumbled upon a fellow who was rope soloing using a Gri-Gri. He was also tied into his belay loop and was obviously unable to climb the 5.10 that he was on when we arrived.

I stopped him (in my professor loud voice) and told him to lower! I demanded he be belayed and told him that was not smart. His anchor was a joke as well!
He tried the climb (with me at the belay) but still couldn't finish so I cleaned it for him. The guy obviously needs to re-think his approach and the risk he is taking for himself and for all of us having to deal with his stupid choices astounds me!

If your out there man and reading this... please learn to climb correctly, find a partner who is sane and smart and most of all tie in the right way!

Best,
Tony

mark postle (a columbus dude) used to tie into his belay loop...

Tony,

Tying into the belay loop is just fine. This is the problem, everyone thinks they have all this experience and knowledge and want to call people out on these forums. You are a gumby in my mind just like that guy is a gumby in your mind.

I suggest you get some training. There are starting to be ample opportunities in the Red these days.

I hope you don't berate your students like you have this fellow climber.

Back atcha,

Karsten

dustonian wrote:Wow, Rick... You're better prepared for accidents than any other climbing area in the country! Now if people could just frikkin learn how to belay...

Belay? I don't need no stinking belay...

kdelap wrote:Tony,

Tying into the belay loop is just fine. This is the problem, everyone thinks they have all this experience and knowledge and want to call people out on these forums. You are a gumby in my mind just like that guy is a gumby in your mind.

I suggest you get some training. There are starting to be ample opportunities in the Red these days.

I hope you don't berate your students like you have this fellow climber.

Back atcha,

Karsten

Please tell me one reason why you would tie in to your belay loop instead of using the manufacturers recommendations for tying in to your harness...


I have read that your belay loop can hold around 10,000 pounds, and so I understand that it's not extremely unsafe or anything, BUT I am also aware that the rope on webbing friction will prematurely wear out your belay loop. Notice where you are supposed to tie in to on a harness that there is extra material there to protect the webbing from wear.

I don't know about you guys, but I treat my belay loop as good as I possibly can. Even when I go in direct I attach a biner to it to reduce wear and tear.

I bet if you ask any author of a book dealing with rope work, they would frown upon tying in to a belay loop. I sure wouldn't want a belay from someone who has been mistreating their belay loop for months/years strait.

One of the main problems in climbing and why we are having so many accidents is because many of the people out there "teaching" are using the words: ALWAYS and NEVER. As a general theme there are no "rules" in climbing; only correct or wrong application.

So for instance; I don't always tie in with the figure of eight. Sometimes I use a retraced barrel knot, sometimes I clip in with a carrabiner; sometimes 2... These all depend on situations and application.

So lets look at the belay loop.

You are correct in that it is very strong. You are also correct that the tie in points have extra material so that they can take more wear. And also correct on that the manufactures say that is where to tie in and that tying into the belay loop will cause more wear on the belay loop.

So it is good to treat your belay loop well. With this being said though, We can tie into our belay loops in many situations to prevent confution and shouldn't be worried about the wear.
For instance when cleaning a route I choose to do so sometimes to make it easier at the anchor. I also tie in to the belay loop when top roping ice climbs alot. This is eaisier to see due to all the clothes that we wear. I usually don't girth hitch my belay loop; (though sometimes this occation does arrise) instead I basket my belay loop with runners.

Talking about the wear of the belay loop is an issue and harness should be retired if they are worn. Most recreational climbers climb about 40 days a year outside. So in 10 years this is of course 400 days. My harnesses are lasting about 1 to 2 years. I climb between 250 to 300 days a year outside. So about the same wear a recreationalist would get in 10 years I am getting in 2. Harness manufactures say shelf life of harnesses is about 7 years. With this statement we should never get to the point where the belay loop is an issue at all. I have never retired a harness due to belay loop wear; infact most of the harnesses I have retired most climbers woud use. Being a proffetional I like to have gear that not only works well but looks good and instills confidence in my clients. The sponsorship from Mammut and Misty Mountain helps too!

If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

People who tie into their belay loop are usually staight up gumbos and are probably doing a bunch of other weird shit too. No, it's not necessarily "dangerous" in itself, but more than likely it is symptomatic of other more serious problems in their system.

weber wrote:We are hanging these tubes on posts at different places around Muir Valley. In the event of an emergency – minor or serious injury – Open the tube and follow the appropriate laminated instructions. Turn on the enclosed 2-way radio and explain the emergency. The Webers and others in the valley may be monitoring FRS Channel 5.0 – especially on busy weekends.

Radios are available for loan on a limited basis at no charge. Check with the Webers at the barn.

Thanks, Meadows, for the idea!

Is there any chance that a bunch of us could get together and buy in bulk on these radios? I would like to buy a couple for myself and family. It doesn't do any good to buy one and then there is no one listening.
I mostly haunt the S.R. off of fixer and bald rock so radios in Muir wouldn't do me any good.
So by consensus or default can we designate channel 5.0 as the official channel to monitor and for emergency use?

Here's where we got ours. The ebay description says "refurbished" but they all look brand new and work fine. We can talk between the house and BruiseBrothers Wall, and that is with a huge cliff in between. With postage, that's $147 for 46 radios! That's about 3 bucks apiece. Very small and easy to use and about 20 hours per set of three AAA batteries. Rechargeables would help there.

http://cgi.ebay.com/23-UNIDEN-GMR1035-2 ... 519340bbc9

Rick