Sending
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davyanderson
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:45 pm
I don't really care if people toprope or lead or call it shit from shinola of whatever they want. But for what's it worth & the sake of semantics, here's a definition from Wikipedia (taken from a couple Euro sport climbing books):
"In Sport climbing, the term red pointing refers to free-climbing a route, while lead climbing, after having practiced the route beforehand (either by leading with frequent rests on the rope, or by top roping)[1]. Frequently many climbers will try to red point a route after having failed to onsight or flash it; although occasionally a climber will forego an onsight attempt if they suspect that the route is so difficult that an attempt would be pointless[1]. The term differs from headpoint, in that it is exclusive to sport routes with protection equipment fixed into the rock at regular intervals.
The English term red point is derived from the German rotpunkt (point of red) coined by Kurt Albert in the mid 70's at Frankenjura. He would paint a red x on a fixed pin that he could avoid using for a foot or hand hold. Once he was able to Free Climb the entire route, he would put a red dot at the base of the route. In many ways this was the origin of the free climbing movement that led to the development of sport climbing ten years later.
Modern Sport climbing ethics do not consider it a red point if you successfully climb a route on toprope without using or weighting the gear or rope, though leading with preplaced quickdraws is allowed in some circles. Leading with pre-placed draws is also referred to as a pink point[2].
References
^ a b Berry, Adrian (2006). Sport Climbing + (1 ed.). Rockfax Ltd. ISBN 1873341865.
^ Pesterfield, Heidi (2007). Traditional Lead Climbing: A Rock Climber's Guide to Taking the Sharp End of the Rope (2 ed.). Wilderness Press. ISBN 0899974422."
That said, sure a "toprope send" is a send of its own sort... but it's not the same as sending on lead. Like a few years ago when Scotty Burke lead all the pitches of the Nose except for the Nose and Great Roof, which he toproped, people were plenty impressed (especially impressive was the 375+ days of effort it took him), but no one really considered the free route to have a second ascent until Tommy and Beth did it a couple of years ago.
Toproping sure is fun sometimes though!
"In Sport climbing, the term red pointing refers to free-climbing a route, while lead climbing, after having practiced the route beforehand (either by leading with frequent rests on the rope, or by top roping)[1]. Frequently many climbers will try to red point a route after having failed to onsight or flash it; although occasionally a climber will forego an onsight attempt if they suspect that the route is so difficult that an attempt would be pointless[1]. The term differs from headpoint, in that it is exclusive to sport routes with protection equipment fixed into the rock at regular intervals.
The English term red point is derived from the German rotpunkt (point of red) coined by Kurt Albert in the mid 70's at Frankenjura. He would paint a red x on a fixed pin that he could avoid using for a foot or hand hold. Once he was able to Free Climb the entire route, he would put a red dot at the base of the route. In many ways this was the origin of the free climbing movement that led to the development of sport climbing ten years later.
Modern Sport climbing ethics do not consider it a red point if you successfully climb a route on toprope without using or weighting the gear or rope, though leading with preplaced quickdraws is allowed in some circles. Leading with pre-placed draws is also referred to as a pink point[2].
References
^ a b Berry, Adrian (2006). Sport Climbing + (1 ed.). Rockfax Ltd. ISBN 1873341865.
^ Pesterfield, Heidi (2007). Traditional Lead Climbing: A Rock Climber's Guide to Taking the Sharp End of the Rope (2 ed.). Wilderness Press. ISBN 0899974422."
That said, sure a "toprope send" is a send of its own sort... but it's not the same as sending on lead. Like a few years ago when Scotty Burke lead all the pitches of the Nose except for the Nose and Great Roof, which he toproped, people were plenty impressed (especially impressive was the 375+ days of effort it took him), but no one really considered the free route to have a second ascent until Tommy and Beth did it a couple of years ago.
Toproping sure is fun sometimes though!
I agree with Chriss, but one thing a lot of top roping climbers don't realize is that because they don't need to get into a clipping stance they also can climb different beta and often avoid a crux area by climbing around it, I have belayed people on top ropes and seen them completely circumvent 2 crux areas on one route probably knocking the grade down by 2-4 letters
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DriskellHR
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:34 pm
not true. On lead you have the weight of the rope.... and the gear.Brentucky wrote:If you successfully go bottom to top and unclip each and every bolt as you go then physically you did just as much as if not more than someone who led and clipped every bolt (I think unclipping is harder than clipping).
And on the third day, God created the Red River Gorge(by conjecture), and he saw that it was good.
