RRC Archives

yea, i'll keep buying cheap plastic shit at wallie world, but i'll be damned if i use those environmentally unfriendly climbing products.
sticky shoe rubber kills baby dolphins!!!

anticlmber wrote:yes but what IS your ultimate goal, or one of them at least??

to have an ultimate goal(s) that effect only you or your small sphere is of no benifit to anyone(including yourself)
having goals more inline with helping more than just yourself are never a fleeting pursuit.

perhaps it is thos thoughts that keep them fleeting.

I never said it wasn't a goal (in fact, I said the opposite). I just said it wasn't my ultimate value.

why the defensiveness from several..this wasn't about other things being more evil than what we do...

it was about stepping up to our responsibility as climbers, and not pretending our poo don't reek.

I was honestly wondering what you as an individual do to improve our stewardship...

if you don't shop at wally world but drive every weekend to go climb, is that really any different?

I 2nd ahab's opinion. Great posts buddy.

A few things. First, like ahab said, driving to the crag is nothing compared to some of the other shit that goes on. I'm not talking about moral relativism either. I'm talking about what whether it makes more than a nominal negative impact. And I think ahab has a point.

Second, if we weren't all climbing, we'd probably be doing something else. Skiing, mountain biking, golfing. Most of those activities have some sort of similar negative environmental impact. I guess jogging to and from your place of living would have minimal environmental impact. But I hate running, so I'm not going to quit climbing to start running.

My point is that to single out 'climbing' over most other forms of recreational activity is a distinction without a difference. I haven't gotten the new issue of Climbing yet, but I would imagine you could substitute the words 'mountain biking' for 'climbing' and the article would still be valid. Or as someone mentioned above, look at golf and golf course development for example.

Finally, I think you have to take the good with the bad to get the full picture. So for the sake of the argument, yes, there are some aspects of climbing that are detrimental to the environment. But aren't there any aspects of climbing that are good for the environment? What about the Access Fund? I think securing land for public recreational use, and in the process avoiding wide-scale development of that land, is a tremendous boon to the environment.

Of course, I'll admit that the environmental 'ideal' would be to secure the land and prohibit ALL human impact. But: "The perfect is the enemy of the good."

didn't say you didn't say it. curious as to how it isn't the ulimate good for anyone/ we are talking about a planet that we all live on and that some of your kids will continue to live on.

as i stated, to have goals that are completely self-centered is a waste of your life and everyone's that you encounter.

pigsteak wrote:why the defensiveness from several..this wasn't about other things being more evil than what we do...

it was about stepping up to our responsibility as climbers, and not pretending our poo don't reek.

I was honestly wondering what you as an individual do to improve our stewardship...

if you don't shop at wally world but drive every weekend to go climb, is that really any different?

I didn't see this post til after I made mine. Not sure if mine came off as defensive, but you do have several valid points and I think this is an interesting topic of discussion. Glad you brought it up.

Other than bringing people to the crag, the environmental impact of bolts must be minimal.

pigsteak wrote:Is there anyone here who honestly can say with a straight face they are eco conscious, yet they climb outside regularly? If so, please share your stories of how your journey is helping and not hurting the environment.

Yes.

There are reasonable measures one could take, and there are extremes.

Driving to the crag uses fuel? Sure. But so does driving to go anywhere, be it working, hiking, fishing, canoeing, or visiting a National Park. Is it reasonable to say that we should all just stay in one place and not ever go anywhere other than places one can reach by biking or walking? No. Is it reasonable that we should minimize the amount of fuel spent by carpooling and using fuel-efficient cars? yes.

How about other ways of minimizing oil consumption? Choose to live close to work, for example. (There are people I work with who drive more in 5 days of commuting to work than I do driving to the Red). Sure, my trip is for pleasure, and theirs is for work, but environment doesn't care whether the fuel is burned on the way to work or on the way to the crag. Even with regular weekend trips I put less miles on my car than many people I know who never go camping (and i end up driving my car most of the time to the red)... Bike whenever possible... you can keep a mental tally--how long would it take you to accumulate as many bike miles as it takes for a round-trip to the Red. It's the total reduction that counts, not whether you drove to the crag or to the store.

And then there are all sorts of small things that add up:

Grow some of your own veggies, buy organic local produce, don't reach for a plastic bag every time you go grocery shopping, compost, reduce/reuse/recycle, buy less "stuff", use energy-efficient appliances and lightbulbs when you have to use them, conserve water, etc. etc.

Our family of 4 generates about 2-3 small grocery bags worth of trash in a week-- not even one regular trash-bag-full.

if you drive your car all week, all over town, and then drive 100+ miles to climb then you are doing more than the person that drives all week and then sits at home on the weekend.

add onto that, going to the gym, everything we use is oil based, and that many folks don't have good outdoor skills (most of which are common sense) and it adds up.

not way worse but not any better.


remember, most people never travel more than 100yards from their car. you "explorers/FA'ers" go to places that nobody else really goes to and then produce climbs that draw more people to the area.

piggie, YOU are the problem and we should do away with you. fuckhole