Oh, and just so it is clear, rc.com probably didn't put those descriptions up, some user did when they added the routes. Like, user cf, http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/for ... sername=cf added citizens aerate, and our very own lena_chita http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/for ... lena_chita added bathtub mary
More about user education then corporate greed.
How should I feel about this?
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- Posts: 347
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:48 pm
Ops, my bad. Sorry about this.
I did it in the beginning, when I was new to RC.com I asked a firend, and she told me she was just copying the description from the guidebook for the area. I then realized that it was wrong, and on the more recent route additions I have been putting in route description "see redriverclimbing.com for details".
For example:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/Nort ... 02496.html
I have tried going back to the older additions and edit, too, but even though I put it in originally, I apparently cannot edit it without the approval of the moderator b/c when I make the change and hit update it doesn't change.
I left it at that, but if you want me to, I will find how to contact the moderator, and delete the descriptions.
I apologize again.
I did it in the beginning, when I was new to RC.com I asked a firend, and she told me she was just copying the description from the guidebook for the area. I then realized that it was wrong, and on the more recent route additions I have been putting in route description "see redriverclimbing.com for details".
For example:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/Nort ... 02496.html
I have tried going back to the older additions and edit, too, but even though I put it in originally, I apparently cannot edit it without the approval of the moderator b/c when I make the change and hit update it doesn't change.
I left it at that, but if you want me to, I will find how to contact the moderator, and delete the descriptions.
I apologize again.
- cliftongifford
- Posts: 649
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:57 am
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- Posts: 738
- Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 2:46 pm
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- Posts: 347
- Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:48 pm
A sixer-- is that like a six-pack of beer? I'll be happy to offer that as a retribution.
I have gone through the RC database and removed the descriptions of the older routes I have added to the database, changing it to "see redriverclimbing.com for details". The descriptions have not changed yet, but I am supposed to get an E-mail when this happens.
But if you want all of it removed, you have way more than just 2-3 people doing the same thing so maybe a general announcement on RC is needed?
If it is any consolation, this is being done to routes in all areas, not just RRG. The reason why I did it initially was b/c I saw that the descriptions of the routes I was marking on my climbing log (added to database by countless other people) were taken verbatum from the respective (published) guidebooks for the areas.
I have gone through the RC database and removed the descriptions of the older routes I have added to the database, changing it to "see redriverclimbing.com for details". The descriptions have not changed yet, but I am supposed to get an E-mail when this happens.
But if you want all of it removed, you have way more than just 2-3 people doing the same thing so maybe a general announcement on RC is needed?
If it is any consolation, this is being done to routes in all areas, not just RRG. The reason why I did it initially was b/c I saw that the descriptions of the routes I was marking on my climbing log (added to database by countless other people) were taken verbatum from the respective (published) guidebooks for the areas.
I think there's some way to edit the HTML for the descriptions page so that it can't be copy/pasted, but there's no way to prevent them from just doing it manually.
The web is a slippery slope of copyright infringement. You try and do some good by providing an online resource for people but someone has to go and rip it off.
I guess it brings up an interesting question. The guidebook on here is provided free of charge. The guidebook on RC is free of charge. I guess its all a matter of the pride you take in your work. You don't like it when you see people ripping off your stuff, which is completely understandable, but if I were new to the Red and came to this site for the first time, I would have no idea who made up the guidebook, just like I have no idea who edits the guidebook at RC. It's not like attributing the RRG.com and RC.com descriptions to you is going to bring you any more business as a guidebook writer. Some might call it egomaniacal to want to have your name on everything you do, even if getting credit for it brings you nothing.
Then again, the guidebook was created in print form first with the intent of making money both for you and the RRGCC. Maybe having the online guide defeats the purpose of a print edition all together by providing free content. And maybe by asking RC not to take down your descriptions, but to attribute them to you and the guidebook, it would lead to more print sales because people would see that your work is legit. Who knows.
No matter what, people see the internet as nothing but free. Free words, free pictures, free movies; and for the most part, it is, which makes it impossible to keep your work as yours. Nobody realizes that the internet IS NOT public domain, and for 99% of users, copy/paste is a shitload easier than doing the work themselves. I don't think there's ever going to be any way to escape this problem unless you just boycott the web altogether, which really sucks.
But the short answer is that I'd ask them to take it down if it were me since I'm pretty vain about my work.
The web is a slippery slope of copyright infringement. You try and do some good by providing an online resource for people but someone has to go and rip it off.
I guess it brings up an interesting question. The guidebook on here is provided free of charge. The guidebook on RC is free of charge. I guess its all a matter of the pride you take in your work. You don't like it when you see people ripping off your stuff, which is completely understandable, but if I were new to the Red and came to this site for the first time, I would have no idea who made up the guidebook, just like I have no idea who edits the guidebook at RC. It's not like attributing the RRG.com and RC.com descriptions to you is going to bring you any more business as a guidebook writer. Some might call it egomaniacal to want to have your name on everything you do, even if getting credit for it brings you nothing.
Then again, the guidebook was created in print form first with the intent of making money both for you and the RRGCC. Maybe having the online guide defeats the purpose of a print edition all together by providing free content. And maybe by asking RC not to take down your descriptions, but to attribute them to you and the guidebook, it would lead to more print sales because people would see that your work is legit. Who knows.
No matter what, people see the internet as nothing but free. Free words, free pictures, free movies; and for the most part, it is, which makes it impossible to keep your work as yours. Nobody realizes that the internet IS NOT public domain, and for 99% of users, copy/paste is a shitload easier than doing the work themselves. I don't think there's ever going to be any way to escape this problem unless you just boycott the web altogether, which really sucks.
But the short answer is that I'd ask them to take it down if it were me since I'm pretty vain about my work.