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I see where you are going with this but something tells me Tiff will never rap off anything unless you knock her out first. try that

I like the sound of Wes' system. Nice and redundant for someone who is not comfy with going down on his own. On a single line rap there is less friction so they will have to know to keep brake line around the hip.
The only drawback is then you have to rerig and undo a wieghted knot so you can pull the rope.

So were you guys up there hashing that out, that it took so long for Al to come down? I noticed he had an autoblock rigged up. I usually go down first to test the system and give a firemans ,but that leaves the next to rig his own system.

ynot wrote: I usually go down first to test the system and give a firemans ,but that leaves the next to rig his own system.

I went down first one time really, really fast! hee hee

I still don't know why we let you go first. The walk off would have been safer.

ynot wrote:I still don't know why we let you go first. The walk off would have been safer.

Are you kidding? The getting there almost killed us! Good times!

ynot wrote:.
The only drawback is then you have to rerig and undo a wieghted knot so you can pull the rope.

You could always rig the rap as normal, tie an 8 on a bight on the belay side of the rope, clip that to the rap side (like rappelling with a gri-gri), get the first one to the ground, unclip and untie the 8, and you are good to go.

Rappelling should not be complicated, my opinion is that simplicity improves safety. You can get the gumby rigged up at the top, rap down yourself, then give them a firemans - simple.

Ynot, you are right, I am trying to figure out an easy way to keep Tiff on belay if I can ever get her to rappel. I pretty much always want a back up when I rappel myself, but I am comfortable with either a firemans or an autoblock. I had no problem on Sunday because I asked they guy on the ground to give me a quick firemans. Once I was down I gave Al a fireman's, so I think he was comfortable as well. However, if I go down first to give Tiff a firemans I don't trust her to correctly clip in to her device, etc. I've got to watch her pretty close. She could probably work the autobloc, but I'd just feel better if I had her on belay. Carrying up two ropes is a pain if the only reason for the other rope is to give a belay. I think I might try this. Of course, this is all dependent on actually talking Tiff into rappeling, which is quite a task in itself.

Like Michaelarmand said. You have the beginner completely set up and clipped in to their rappel rig before you clip in below them and rap. Then you give them a fireman's. Not all that complicated, really.

yup, michealarmand and l k day are talking about a guided rap.

extend her device with a shoulder length sling (add a second for redundancy if you'd like) girth hitched to her rappel loop. rig it, then rig below her and rap down. the slack provided with her extended device will give you enough room to get in there, tension the rope, etc. to rappel, without putting the weight on her. get to the bottom, fireman's belay. there's an added benefit that since her device is extended, her hand won't track up and get near the device as some beginners have a problem keeping there hand at the hip. the device is now near her face though, so make sure she keeps her hair away from it.