Sustainable route development

Post by **Shamis** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:12 pm

As far as preservation goes, I think there should be an effort to preserve hard trad lines from being bolted.

If it can be lead safely with a nice rack by somebody who is solid at the grade, then I think it should remain unbolted. If its a nice sport crag and the route would earn an R rating on gear, then I can understand bolting it. But there are some nice looking routes that I think would go in the G/PG range that end up bolted. I realize I'm in the minority on this, so feel free to ignore this post if it offends you.

Post by **elcapitan1974** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:31 pm

Bolted cracks are gay! Why would anyone bolt a crack. Even if it is an "r" rating or at a sport crag. According to some on here the future of climbing is higher numbers. So who is to say that crack line may not go down in the future so dont just bolt it. Maybe the future holds a few sonnie trotters out there that would not hesitate to chop bolts if the line can be lead on natural gear!

Post by **toad857** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:38 pm

elcapitan1974 wrote:Bolted cracks are gay! Why would anyone bolt a crack.

i'm sure this topic has run its course on here before, but...

i would love the opportunity to climb a crack or a flake... but i have no trad gear. and, no, i cannot afford even one cam, let alone an entire rig of them.

if i were to come across a bolted crack, i would climb it.

$ 1/50

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:44 pm

now ladies, let's not get off topic here... as far as I can think, there is not a single bolted crack in the red. (feel free to correct me on that)

I think Shamis, might be alluding to either mixed routes, or probably face climbs that take gear. in that case, I have bolted MANY face climbs that would take gear..but we have been over that topic tons....perhaps upwards of 50 percent of bolted routes at the red can be protected clean.

and shamis, why save the enjoyment of trad climbing with just those at the upper end? why not leave some 5.8 faces unbolted?

Post by **elcapitan1974** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:50 pm

Understood, sorry. No bolted cracks at the Red and hopfully never will be!

Post by **ReachHigh** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:05 pm

what about trad faces?

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:55 pm

reachhigh, that was what I was alluding too...many faces that are bolted truly are trad lines

Post by **Wes** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:49 pm

There are bolted cracks at the red. And there are bolted face climbs that would go on gear. I don't get offended either way, but think that mixed routes with mostly bolts, but a one or two pieces of gear are the dumbest things ever.

Post by **Steve** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:15 am

Wes wrote:I don't get offended either way, but think that mixed routes with mostly bolts, but a one or two pieces of gear are the dumbest things ever.

I got on some easy sleazy mixed routes at Draper's Bluff this past fall and kinda enjoyed them. I like to use my gear since I paid for it, and usually hoof it up to the crag. I know your argument on mixed lines, and tend to agree, but I guess it all depends on my mood as to whether I think they are the dumbest things ever.

Post by **ynot** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:32 am

I'm with you ,Wes If it only needs one piece of trad gear just make it a sport route. Other than that I like mixed routes.