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i had a great time climbing there like 6 years ago, right before it was closed. then someone from charmaine told us we had to leave with him and that he was going to tow our truck. we even made sure that we did not block any pumps and follow the rules.

that didnt sound so good to us, so we took a right instead of a left and the chase was on... we got away, but i would advise not going there. good climbing though.

ReachHigh wrote:......... basically is an easement/cliff base issue.

What he said. If there is any hope to having it opened we have two options......

1) Cooperating with Charmagne and convincing them to allow us access.
2) Legal action to get property lines/ownership settled in court.

Sorry, but the RRGCC isn't really in a position to fund a long, drawn out legal exercise that may not even pay off in the long run.

I'd advise staying away from closed cliffs because selfishly pushing the issue makes everything we are working for that much more difficult. It's not like there aren't plenty of open cliffs around here.

I thought relations were getting better with Charmagne? But if option 1 doesn't work then I support raising money for option 2 (which reminds me I need to make a contribution to the RRGC anyway). There any lawyers here?

Think about it from the oil companies perspective - why would they want to waste time and money in court just to keep us from some rock face? I don't know the details but my guess is they would fold and allow access. But this isn't good for relations either...

Does anyone have any contacts with Charmagne management? If we own the land why are they so unreasonable.....

michaelarmand wrote:I thought relations were getting better with Charmagne?

They are. Don't eff it up by poaching routes at closed crags.

michaelarmand wrote:But if option 1 doesn't work then I support raising money for option 2 (which reminds me I need to make a contribution to the RRGC anyway).

What say we pay off the land first? That's 30K every year til 2013. I am far from comfortable in saying that is done but your contribution is definitely appreciated. Thanks a ton!

michaelarmand wrote:Think about it from the oil companies perspective - why would they want to waste time and money in court just to keep us from some rock face? .

They have attorneys on staff and a budget for these kinds of things. Even so, I can't begin to explain my company's internal politics, much less a company based in Texas.

~96% of all money that you donate to the RRGCC goes to the property. Most of our operation costs are paid by BOD members and other kickass RRGCC volunteers. Can you imagine the pro-bono hours it would take a climbing attorney to fight an oil company?

Point is, don't climb at closed crags, anywhere. There's a reason they are closed and there are generally people working to get them open, even though you may not see it.

Just a quick correction Charmaine Oil Co. spells it with an i

My name is spelled with a g --Charmagne

Please do not confuse the two

maine wrote:Just a quick correction Charmaine Oil Co. spells it with an i

My name is spelled with a g --Charmagne

Please do not confuse the two

and one has been drilled by tons of smelly oil workers.

the other......................nah.

OH Climber,

Be aware that people have been shot at while climbing at oil crag. Also, if you pass the motherload parking lot and turn left and then right, and park at the top of the hill, and walk around on the left side (left of the few routes that are there) you can get shot at there too. Wandering around rural KY is dangerous enough, don't go where you are expressly not welcome.

I was shot at, at oil crag many years ago.

Sorry Andrew, that was me, you should wear bright orange next time.

I think it was 2002, me and a friend were wandering around, we heard some gunshots, and we did not worry, just assumed it was someone having fun. However, as we kept walking we noticed that we were getting closer. Eventually we decided it would be smart to turn around. As soon as we did, the shooting stopped. While I don't think anyone was out to kill us I do think they were trying to keep us away.

Seriously, OH climber, don't go down there.