Talk to me about the future...

[Brentucky]

I would think we all, if we truly cared, would quit driving to the Red to climb, which wastes ton of natural resources.

PS- What time do we leave tomorrow Caribe?

hey, isn't 3 better and more environmentally friendly and CHEAPER than 2? where was my call?

j/k, i wouldn't have burned a vacation day to climb in this temperature anyway, at least not with you two!

oh yeah, i don't really understand the point of selling a house, at least not if you're living in it and have a fixed mortgage rate that isn't really hurting you. i'm probably wrong in my oversimplification, but the way i see it is if your house is up OR down in price then so is everyone else's in the same area so it pretty much breaks even anyway. i'll give you $5 for $5 or $20 for $20 and in the end the transaction is the only thing that might bring worry or pain.

[anticlmber]

interesting wes, i always heard marriage made one glum.

really though like piggie said, (gasp, i find myself agreeing with him too much) its all about doing thing you SHOULD be doing. lights off, not wasting, lets just be simple and say not wasting.

the green idea has its place but dollars are green and speak louder. i think health care is a good avenue, i hope after all this it is. but making money and HOLDING on to it are key. you can spend but is it REALLY worth it?? if it puts a smile on your face and you couldn't imagine life without then spend. and THAT pigass is why i will scrounge pennies and suck dick to go to the gorge.

poor
ugly
happy

[tomdarch]

How "big picture" do you really want to get? The economy of the developed world is based on endless "growth" (essentially growth of GDP, which means growth of consumption). Is it possible to shift away from this either for environmental reasons or just to be "economically sustainable" and live with what we've got? I kinda doubt it. In the same way that computer chip companies are endlessly battling the laws of physics to keep Moore's "Law" going, we're going to be chasing "economic growth" for the foreseeable future, whether it's doable or not.

Overall, I don't think that things are that bad (for us) over the next 50 years. Sure, global warming will cause problems, but I'm guessing not catastrophe. I just read something about how tens of millions of people around the world are "joining the middle class" each year in China, India and lots of other more developed countries. (In these terms, "middle class" means making US$6k to US$30k per year: enough for more than food security, like medical care and educating kids, possibly buying property and definitely buying consumer goods). This trend is expected to continue for decades, and will bring about 2 billion (out of what? 8-10 billion people by then) of the world's population into "the middle class". That's probably bad for the environment, but my sense is that it's good for the US economy (assuming that the world doesn't continue to hate us more and more every year...) We're pretty good at coming up with crap people don't need and selling it to them, so hopefully that will continue working for a while.

More immediately, as an architect, I'm not really looking forward to the next year or two. (construction is very sensitive to the overall economy and is being hampered by the problems in the global credit market.) The construction industry is predicted to hold roughly steady for the rest of this year and contract by a few percent next year, because that's how long it takes for overall economic issues to ripple through the multi-year plan->design->build process. If in 2009, I get 93% of the business that I got in 2007, I'll be OK, but growth would be better.

Overall, in any economic downturn, it's time to realize how all the crap in our lives isn't that important. Heck, I just got a dog, so if I'm "forced" to spend less time at the office and more at home, that's not so bad. Over the last few years, we've been trying to come down to the Red every other weekend in spring and fall, to the tune of $100 to $120 per trip in gas. If things really slow down, then maybe we'll be making much longer trips to, uh, justify the gas cost

[TradMike]

Things are looking brighter um I mean greener.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25723033/

[Saxman]

We have three dogs. That could easily carry one through a bad winter along with canning and hydroponics.

[schwagpad]

1)Live like a bum. This costs less and gives you enough cred to rag on yuppies, thus improving your mood.
2)Drink only PBR and Skol.
3)Become a gold-digging man-whore. It might be fun, and everyone needs a sugar momma to manipulate.

Seriously, I've always wondered about this kind of thing. I have never really "felt the pinch" from any economic downturn myself. Then again, I've been a student and a bachelor with very few responsibilities my entire life. Also, as with most everyone on this board, I'm not staying at Hiltons and eating at five star restaurants when I go on vacation. I find the cheapest camping possible, and eat bean burritos. I'm in the ideal situation of living a couple miles from work, and a couple miles from climbing. I think, as much as anything, this lucky fact helps me to live very cheaply. Also, my job allows me dress like a bum in torn up pants a tshirt and holey shoes. I wear only clothing I rack up from christmas and birthdays. Food and gas would have to get pretty damn expensive to start affecting my habits, even on a grad student salary, driving a gas guzzling suv and eating out all the time.

By the way, I'm not trying to recommend my lifestyle, I'm just giving my perspective. I have to admit that seeing it in writing like this does not feel very uplifting.

[Rags]

interesting post, wes.

how about taking a pledge to eat more local food? a lot of our produce is trucked, flown, and brought to us on rail.which incurs a huge amount of expense of energy and consumption. support local farmers in both regards: vegetable and meat.

a lot has been written recently on the consumption of large farm beef and chicken so I won't recite the lines but simply put, there are providers (local) that have raised healthy and fairly inexpensive herds (ya heard?). presently I am searching for a used freezer to store some locally purchased meat for the winter. I have read that the american consumer spends less on food than any other developed nation--hence our reliance on processed food and our expanding waistlines. If I were to allow digression I would ask what has happened to the american sense of cuisine?

our small garden has given us a bounty this year already: lettuce, peas, radishes, etc... and will blossom with tomatoes, squash, zucchini, etc.. in the coming months.

no new zealand apples, south american bananas, or grapes will grace our table this year. as a result we will save money and eat better...

it's one small thing that means a lot...

my kitchen this year will see homemade cheese, our own chickens in the fryer, and a happy healthy little boy who knows the importance of eating fresh things and the joys of talking to farmers (who give him free samples of everything...) we've made tarragon butter for basting our own dix river trout...

it seems simple but with a little diligence and dedication one can make an impression on their own surroundings.

[mcrib]

I feel sick agreeing with Pig and anti but they are right. Crisis can be averted through living smarter. it is frustrating because you realize that hummers are fucking stupid but so are the people that buy them. people feel that they have a right to do whatever they want regardless of the impact of those actions and that ethos has to change. one person riding their bike or planting a vegetable garden will have little impact but multiply that impact a million times over and you will see change. so don't laugh off riding your bike and it is easy to justify the drive to the gorge if you cut out the two mile ride to the grocery store (and bring your own bags). brew your own beer, grow your own food and only drive to the red. I know it sounds like hippy shit but I believe it and I think hippies smell.

on the economic front I think that white collar crime needs to be checked and I think our foreign policy may need to move away from fighting a war that costs trillions of borrowed dollars, is being fought for reasons that are vague at best and seems to have no end in sight. It is scarier now to think about the future than at any point I can remember but if we all do our part and bitch slap mother fuckers whose sole motivation in life is greed we can see things start to get better

and don't elect McCain.

[Wes]

interesting wes, i always heard marriage made one glum.

Glum? Nope, actually marriage has been really cool so far. But, speaking of marriage, are you ready for that special photo session we talked about the other day?

Some good stuff to think about. Still, some seems like more long term, save the people ideas, rather then how to thrive, or at least survive, in a downturn. Unless things really turn very, very bad, people will still be spending money, and life will go on. But, rather then be one of those people with SUV's that seem to have just woken up to the fact that gas is pricey and not going to get cheaper, a month ago, I kinda want to be thinking ahead a bit. I am upbeat about the future, and we are moving and starting a new biz in a new state in a competitive and tough field. Oh, and I play the powerball a couple times a month, so that has got to be worth something...

[512OW]

I'm gettin the snip.