RRC Archives

There was that trad climber's inequity thread that got pretty long winded a while back.

the harder people climb, or at lest the harder they climb at trad, the more they discount the difference.

What would you do? Would you tack on 20 points to trad climbs, raise the overall scores so lower grades get points, both? I don't think anything will come of it, even though I think there is some disparity.

I think trad is more work, especially on onsite. And with every go for the send involves placing gear, there's always a little more work involved, even when you get the placements dialed. Trad climbers get a little more street cred in my book for climbing on their own gear instead of bolts.

rjackson...OW has climbed low 13 sport and 12plus trad (as I believe SCIN has)..the disparity will not be there when you learn both to the same degree. so your "solid" 5.9 trad friends are actually gumbies when it comes to trad.

pigsteak wrote:...OW has climbed low 13 sport and 12plus trad (as I believe SCIN has)...

Are they the exception to the rule?

And I understand the insight, but damn. If you ask them which they thought was harder, I wonder...

It's the routes that don't have good rests where you have to plug in gear at an awkward stance that makes a trad 5.x harder than sport 5.x. In the sport scenario you won't have to hang out on a strenuous stance for very long where as with trad you may have to mess around for a while to get some decent gear while at that strenuous stance. Clipping a bolt is a lot faster than making sure you have a decent placement where there isn't much to go on. Sure you can skip the gear but then it's not very safe like sport would be. That's why you see prehung draws on some sport climbs. It's easier. Not to say one is better than the other though.

der uber wrote:What would you do?

So if the hardest, most seasoned, well rounded climbers are still showing a disparity of 2 letter grades (more or less), then that's 10 points off the top (roughly). And that's at a pretty high level, where every letter grade gets harder and harder to achieve. So what's the average difference for the average climber who climbs both?

Even if you use the hardest climbers sending closest in trad and sport, you still don't have equality. So calculate the difference and have a seperate scale for trad. Perhaps assigning points to lower grades in trad and find equality on a sliding basis near the top.

Albeit, easier said than done. And I'm just stirring the pot and not having to do any of the work (both my apologies and thanks to those that make this possible).

Holy crap how about those Celtics and UK's own Rajon Rondo!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!????

Western Conference is so totally lame and Kobe Bryant is so overhyped it's scary. If he had of maybe played NCAA ball and learned how to execute when the other team actually defends maybe he'd be the player everyone thinks he is. As it is, he's a superstar cause nobody in teh West can defend and when those teams actually meet anyone with a basketball IQ the EASTERN CONFERENCE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Judge rules...

..worrying about arbitrary points is even lamer than chasing numbers and we have this conversation every 3 weeks.

Someone please lock this thread.

If the conversation is held every three weeks, then the topic must be relevant. You don't have to vote, you don't have to eat your peas, you don't have to shower or brush your teeth. It's all a choice.

I don't expect the system to change, but I am trying to understand it.

NOTE I imagined Pitino with his head in his hands.

again, rjackson, I say they merely know how to be well rounded climbers. I for one, am a sport junkie, and have the same wide abyss in my climbing skills. 5.9 trad takes all my concentration, and I am OK with that. I'd say dedicate yourself to 100% trad for a few years, and you'll make up the difference.

what typically happens is sucky sport climbers (ie...can't climb 5.10 without getting pumped) decide to go trad where there are easier numbers. they can then plug gear on 5.6's, amaze their friends, and then whine about the HUGE disparity in ratings/numbers, and how 5.10 trad is the death toll for a sport wienie. in reality, a solid sport climber could easily climb the same grade in trad IF they took the time to learn the nuances of trad.

most "trad" climbers are in reality folks who are lazy off the couch, want to be a part of the "cllimbing" community, but don't want to train to get physically better. trad is their cop out, or default.

ok, now we can lock. the steak has spoken.

5.11c trad = 5.12a sport given that you are equally good at both, the trick is being equally good at both...