Rhapsody is an eliminate route????? WTF???

Post by **tomdarch** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:56 pm

I find this more interesting:

On the edge of giving up, Trotter's friend Will Gadd managed to raise funds from private fans to keep the attempt alive. The climbing community struck again.

Post by **stix** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:54 pm

it's all sorta grey area contrivances. i can traverse into the sit down on fuzzy from tissue tiger (or gung ho for that matter) without doin a single hard move, which would make tissue much easier for me, but i think most would argue that's off route. does that equal eliminate? i'm not sure. i used to get really high and mighty over eliminates, routes that don't go to the top, boulder problems that don't top out, etc but i think that's just an excuse for talkin shit about something that you can't do. for sure the proudest, most classic lines will always be the non-eliminates and the cleanest, but from there it's all about a personal choice and reporting honestly what style you did the line in.

the cove isn't a classic bouldering area because it's cliffline that doesn't top out, but it's fun.

baby martini (in hueco) has the most retarded finish in history where you have to contort off of the roof onto a detached block that blocks the exit of the cave. and to boot it's just the finish to martini roof that skips the crux first eight feet of climbin. one of the best problems i've ever done

Post by **512OW** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:00 pm

stix wrote: i can traverse into the sit down on fuzzy from tissue tiger (or gung ho for that matter) without doin a single hard move, which would make tissue much easier for me, but i think most would argue that's off route. does that equal eliminate? i'm not sure.

No you can't. Regardless, if you could, it wouldn't change the grade of either route as there is a practically no hands rest before both cruxes anyway.

No, thats not an eliminate. You can't just reach the rest... you're "traversing" into it.

In the photo, and according to Trotter, the arete is less than 3 feet from some of the crux moves. Its two letter grades easier with the arete. THAT is an eliminate.

I agree that its a badass accomplishment, but by no means should it be the "groundbreaking" ascent it was made out to be. Its not really a 14c. Its a 14a, unless you decide to not use the arete.

My point is, you can't grade a route based on what it goes at as an eliminate. I'm sure you could climb a different sequence and call Rhapsody a 15a. Why not?

Post by **jlutotherescue** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:57 pm

i agree, if the arete is in reach then the route is easier then originally graded. however, the fact that dave did not use it is a huge deal and should be respected.

let dave keep the 14c grade but anyone who climbs it now should use the 14a grade.

and traversing takes nothing out of a climb. you just waste energy and time. plus if you fall off tissue or gung ho from fuzzy i bet you will deck.

Post by **stix** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:16 am

i do the first three bolts of tissue and then traverse into fuzzy for a warm up all the time

you wouldn't deck you could clip bolts on the way over and then unclip them to get back to the route....it would be a lame waste of time but you could do it

Post by **anticlmber** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:59 am

jlutotherescue wrote: let dave keep the 14c grade but anyone who climbs it now should use the 14a grade.

so why should he get the 14c grade??? because its the first contrived ascent??(FCA) shit i got many of those as do others so why should just the first get the fluff grade and not the others???

if thats the game than all of us have only climbed 9+

Post by **jlutotherescue** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:34 pm

he gets the 14c grade because he climbed it first without the arete!

what happens when you climb a 14a and a hold breaks? the grade might jump up to 14b. that doesnt mean you climbed a 14b...

this situation is the opposite, he climbed a 14c, and someone found a hold, ie the arete, therefore the grade dropped to a 14a

now that i wrote this i do see what you are saying, but its not like trotter found a jug...hes using a huge natural feature that runs up close to the route so i feel like its different

Post by **jlutotherescue** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:40 pm

stix wrote:i do the first three bolts of tissue and then traverse into fuzzy for a warm up all the time

why wouldnt you warm up on fuzzy in the first place...

Post by **rhunt** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:58 pm

I'm guess because the start boulder problem of fuzzy can be a hard way to warm up. I just wish I would have thought to bypass the start of fuzzy as a warm-up - makes good sense.

Until we can all climb 5.14 trad, why don't we leave it to the ones that can and let them rate the climbs and climb them in any style they want.

Post by **anticlmber** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:33 pm

rhunt wrote: Until we can all climb 5.14 trad, why don't we leave it to the ones that can and let them rate the climbs and climb them in any style they want.

because your the first you get do it how you want??? if so then ALL you haters need to come of the muir valley shit. if you own it i'll agree with that staement. if you don't, then leaving it to "them" offers few to call foul or point out ethical flaws, i.e. drilling/chipping holds, over-bolting, flat out lying. if you choose to live and climb in the lime light then you are to be held as the martyr you are.

also if the next person climbs the "eliminate" do they get the 14c grade or the 14a grade???