beating bible-ers

[pigsteak]

dude, Whitesnake kicked REM's ass!

[Paul3eb]

oh ye of little faith..

llr, faith is precisely believing in something without any proof. that's why it's called a blind leap. if you need proof to keep your faith, you don't have faith: you have an opinion supported by evidence. that link you posted makes me sad: if you need a "daily reason to believe" you're missing the whole point.

i refer you to john 20:24-29..

[Paul3eb]

this is exactly what i mean when i say that the ideas of "good" and "bad/evil" can be harmful:

from a story on news.bbc.com (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4677969.stm)

This was an exorcism, the pastor told us. The mother's marriage had broken down, it was the child's fault as she was possessed with Kindoki.

Something had been rubbed into the girl's eyes as part of this ritual. Her ordeal had already lasted three days, and there was another 24 hours to go.

The pastor dismissed the risk the child could die from such treatment. He said: "Why should the child die? If the child dies, it means the child is evil."

[longlegsrule]

oh ye of little faith..

llr, faith is precisely believing in something without any proof. that's why it's called a blind leap. if you need proof to keep your faith, you don't have faith: you have an opinion supported by evidence. that link you posted makes me sad: if you need a "daily reason to believe" you're missing the whole point.

i refer you to john 20:24-29..

i don't need proof...just posting for others

and you all were talking about science and faith intermingling...that's what the site was for

[pigsteak]

paul, don't misprepresent that story. or miss the good it tells of. didn't you see the orphanage run by the catholic charity? isn't that good? didn't the priest running it condemn these exorcisms?

from the very first sentence, I said to myself this isn't christianity. mixing christianity and african traditions is like mixing buddism and christianity. it may fit the "feel good" factor for its practitioners, but it is worthless.

[Paul3eb]

from the very first sentence, I said to myself this isn't christianity.

that's my point, though. one person's "good" is another person's "evil". it's pastors who are performing these "exorcisms". they probably believe that what they are doing there is honestly for the good of the children, society, god..

Mr Kitoko was clearly offended when I expressed my concern. "This isn't a prison! It's a hospital," he said indignantly.

[pigsteak]

I agree with much of what you have said on this thread. I do agree that it is very difficult to differentiate between good and evil at times. I think of the war and Iraq, and the innocent children who get in the way of madmen on both sides. Where is their God?

[Paul3eb]

Where is their God?

but, as far as i understand, believing in god promises a person nothing in terms of rewards for this life. in fact, believers are warned that they will be scorned and punished for their beliefs and that their lives will be long and hard and full of suffering. from what i understand, believing gets you one thing and one thing only: eternal life with the creator. expecting life to be easier or better because you have a relationship with god is.. misguided.. am i right on any of this?

[Paul3eb]

and you all were talking about science and faith intermingling...that's what the site was for

actually, we were talking about how faith and science don't intermingle at all. how they are essentially polar opposites in their nature and structure. we were, however, discussing science's place in religious thought.. and vice versa.

[ynot]

Christ! Twenty pages and I haven't derailed this one yet. I tried. Honest,I tried.