beating bible-ers
The problem and challenge here is that both sides are right as far as they go. It just seems that at least in the media it appears that we are dealing with 2 diametrically opposed positions. It may sell but it is really in my estimation disingenuous.Spragwa wrote:Christian hasn't posted in this thread yet so we cannot know whether it's Christian propaganda.
It could be worse. The interesting part of the story is that conservative fundamentalist Christians have been honing their arguments against Darwinism and in favor of creationism since the monkey trials in Dayton. Just goes to show that certain arguments never die just percolate.
We react.
I agree partially with Paule3eb and cringe when "fundamentalist Christians" seem to be ramming a strict literal interpretation of the Bible down my throat.
and for years I just accepted that Evolution according to Darwin and others was the unquestioned truth.
It seems both have flaws: when we apply rational investigation based on a scientific approach to Creationism it appears almost ridiculous...
But evolutionary theorists that are honest ultimately confess that there are tremendous leaps of faith(where did the Big Bang come from? What was there before the Big Bang?...)in Darwinism
It really seems to me that at its core the religious fundamentalists have pointed out what I see as a problem with secular or scientific materialism:
that is, if it cannot be detected by the 5 senses or proven through scientific inquiry, then it doesn't exist.(Ken Wilber calls this Flatland... because it excludes direct personal experience of higher levels of consciousness that have been described my humans for thousands of years)
The flaw(for me) with faith-based views of Creation etc seems to be that not only did a Divine Intelligence create all this but "his" name is GOD and His son was Jesus Christ and its my way or the highway to hell...
both versions have a tendency to polarize the discussion instead recognizing what seems to be an opportunity for Inclusion and Dialogue.
anyway that's what I kind of get from all this.
I try to be a good man but all that comes
of trying is I feel more guilty.
Ikkyu
of trying is I feel more guilty.
Ikkyu
just kidding.I really like what mqad has said above. Ultimately when we take the time to stop and observe we will have a direct personal experience with the "isness or suchness" of Life/Spirit or whatever other inadequate label you want to apply.
No theories,no arguments, nobody right or wrong, there is a transcendent quality that "is" that cannot be described or even experienced. But it is a direct felt sense
that all of us are already contained within.
No theories,no arguments, nobody right or wrong, there is a transcendent quality that "is" that cannot be described or even experienced. But it is a direct felt sense
that all of us are already contained within.
I try to be a good man but all that comes
of trying is I feel more guilty.
Ikkyu
of trying is I feel more guilty.
Ikkyu
well i wouldn't say that darwinism necessarily embraces the big bang theory. and i would say that most scientists or scientifically minded people, would readily admit that every theory and observation is possibly wrong. and i wouldn't say that science doesn't say those experiences don't exist. it might say that those experience don't exist within the realm of scientific understanding. in time, people often knock that last part off and it becomes "don't exist."Christian wrote:..It really seems to me that at its core the religious fundamentalists have pointed out what I see as a problem with secular or scientific materialism:
that is, if it cannot be detected by the 5 senses or proven through scientific inquiry, then it doesn't exist.(Ken Wilber calls this Flatland... because it excludes direct personal experience of higher levels of consciousness that have been described my humans for thousands of years)..
but in the same way that science is understood, so are the religion and the religious.
i was more just pointing out the scary discussions in the npr piece. someone trying to teach evolution in church saying, "have you ever seen a cat-dog? not in the cartoon." and having students think that they're really getting a diverse learning experience.
now, if you ever want to see a few whacked out scientist that could be considered the polar opposite of these people, what "what the bleep do we know?".. don't ask why i know that such a strange movie exists.. or does it?!
and great loves will one day have to part -smashing pumpkins
Those who do not believe in evolution by natural selection are going to hell? Where in "On the Origin of the Species" did Darwin write that?