Roadside Impact

Post by **young'n climber** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:14 pm

JB, why don't you quit climbing while your at it.

Post by **ynot** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:09 am

I'm with you JB. Theres lots of other places to take newbies to.

Post by **J-Rock** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:10 am

Impact is inevitable, but there are many things that can be done to control the erosion such as shoring up the trails and constructing them in such a way as to minimize erosion. A little bit of foresight in the beginning will go a long way to preserving the area around the cliff base. I've seen significant differences in several areas that have been developed in differing ways. It's been interesting to observe these changes at various cliffs. Even in areas that have only been open for less than a year we have noticed considerable erosion and we have learned much in the process. Fortunately we have a great group of volunteers and some "expert trail builders/advisors" who have helped to design and construct our trails with sustainability being of greatest importance.

Of course we all make an impact, but keeping this in mind, if we strive to follow a "Leave No Trace" philosophy and teach the same to those around us by example then perhaps we will be better off than staying at home and doing nothing...

Post by **pigsteak** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:47 am

just to argue...

"Leave NO Trace?" don't you mean..."leave a small trace?" we build trails, poop in the woods, bring dogs that violate plants with their piss, kill bees and hornets, permanently scar the face of the rock with anchors..

Seems like to me there is always a "trace" of human passing.

Post by **J-Rock** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:58 am

Just to argue... I think you are missing the whole point of the philosophy...

Did you not read the part where I wrote "Of course we all make an impact..."???

Post by **Saxman** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:04 am

Some areas definitely need yearly upkeep and/or better designed erosion controls.

Post by **Spragwa** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:06 am

I think that we have to leave an impact to maintain the trails in highly traveled areas. One of the solutions that Johnny showed us is to backfill the area. Create little barriers, fill them with rocks, then top off with dirt. That's what a group did under C Sharp or B Flat. It doesn't look natural but it has slowed the erosion.

Post by **pigsteak** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:52 pm

then why is it called "leave NO trace"?..or am I just being too literal?

Post by JB » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:52 pm

youngn': no, but i will attempt to lessen my impacts by not climbing at the aforementioned spot. thanks.

pigsteak: Leave No Trace is a set of principles. They include "stay on the trail" and "limit group size" and "travel on durable surfaces". It's not about pristine, it's about sustainability. of course we leave a trace. how small can it be?

Like i said, it's a difficult issue for climbers because we want to climb. We put in bolts, and then the traffic that comes to the area because of that starts to cause the process of erosion to speed up. We harden the base of an area by tramping around on it. When that happens, the soil won't hold water and trees die, uproot, and further erode the landscape.

Still, we want to climb right? Okay, so climb, but be aware that you are causing impact when you do. Don't complain about an area while you're standing there making it worse. I was guilty of this.

Post by JB » Wed Jul 06, 2005 2:54 pm

pigsteak, being literal makes it easier to be pissy, so why not?
looking up www.lnt.org and checking out the principles first might make it harder to be as pissy, so let's not do that.