Bolting Book Available for Download

Post by **Wes** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:46 pm

That line is from the old days when everyone used gear for anchors. There are already so many "single points of failure" in the climbing system. You only use one 'biner to belay right? One atc/gri-gri (ever check out the tiny pin that holds those things together?). One rope. And then there are all the bolts that you are betting your life on. All with one hanger/one hanger side biner/one dogbone/one rope side biner, etc. Be informed about the why's rather then just some saying.

Post by **Eric** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:51 pm

Granted there are many parts of a climbing system that are just one point, but you have to balance redundancy versus practicality. If you wanted to belay with two ropes you certainly could. That is a choice you are making. When you lower off of a fixed anchor you are forced to use the setup provided.

You may be using only one rope, but there are many components of a dynamic rope besides the sheath and core. Take a look sometime at the inner core and you will hundreds of individual strands of rope woven within. Your belay loop is the same. I have different feelings about softgoods (rope, webbing, belay loops) then hardgoods (carabiners, nuts, rap rings). It is quite easy to look or feel a "softgood" and quickly ascertain it's condition. It is impossible without testing and pulling a "hardgood" to know if it has been weakened. As a guide and climber I will continue to practice and preach that redundancy should always be exercised whenever possible. I realize that a rap ring is super strong and probably won't break, but I don't want to be the victim if it does and there is also no reason that a second piece couldn't be added. I understand cost is a factor and personally I have no problem giving donations at trailheads or something similar to Torrent if that means I get two anchor points to lower or rappel from.

my 2 cents

Post by **Wes** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:59 pm

I think what I am trying to say, is that people should be way more involved and thoughful about the climbing systems, rather then just chanting saying like "never have a single point of failure". If climbers are more aware of the actual risks, vs. precieved risks, then they will be safer. So, rather then worring about a single rap ring (which can be easily backed up, if you wish), I would rather they worry about betting a 40+ foot ground fall on one bolt/draw.

Post by **ynp1** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:03 pm

i agree dont worry so much about the two points of contact. i think that saying relates more to trad climbing when you have to build your own anchors at the top of a pitch. sport climbing is full of one point of safety, just like wes has said.

Post by **marathonmedic** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:20 am

How about a setup like the top of Bandolier? It has two chain anchors that someone joined with a single screw link on the lowest link. It's seen quite a bit of abuse over the years and some wear. I'm thinking the anchors are probably safe to lower off the link alone, but wouldn't it make more sense to separate the anchors so the chains can be used separately?

Post by **kafish2** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:06 am

Wes, I feel like my mentioning that one point will work, and the fact that i mentioned only a few systems that use two points showed i have analyzed the situation. And, yes there are a lot of instances where redundancy is not present... imagine trying to clip two bolts on the redpoint where now there is only one. The point of my post was that where it is possible there should be redundancy. We are talking a matter of cents for a second mallion from a hard ware store.

Post by **Wes** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:12 pm

kafish2, No worries, I wasn't tring to say you weren't pretty active in your climbing. Just pointing out some stuff for others.

Personal perference, really. I have yet to see an anchor setup on a new route that I thought was truelly dangerous.

Post by **ynot** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:51 am

Exactly. Some trad routes have very few options for an anchor. A pair of bolts would be the ticket but are only a dream.

Post by **meetVA** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:49 pm

Is there any chance we could post some pictures of the different anchor systems? I obviously haven't seen the new cable anchors and am pretty sure I know what all the other ones look like.

Wait...I guess I look at the download and see if I can be productive by myself.

Cursory glance, great work Rick!!!

Post by **kneebar** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:52 pm

If you don't like lowering off a single point do what I do. Carry a couple of quick links and donate one on occasion, its not that big of a deal. The problem I have had in the past is some dumb-ass removes it. I don't get that, if you don't think you need it don't use it!