Climbing Courtesy 2

Post by **Artsay** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 pm

Meadows wrote:Ha! Pete, I wanted to say that!

Artsay, If your draws are on a route and you don't want people climbing on them, aren't you hogging the route?

I don't think anyone sees draws on a route as hogging the route and I don't think anyone is bothered if anyone else uses they're draws. I thought we were talking about ropes?

But for the record, if you go to the crag and hang your draws on a route, rest, and then lead it again, then no, you're not hogging the route. Hogging is when multiple people are on one route for an extended period of time. So if I want to go while you were resting then essentially you're being nice to let me on the route and use your draws. That's how I see it anyway...

Post by **pawilkes** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:21 pm

a guy asked if he could get my draws on Too Many Puppies the other day and i told him no b/c... well its just a lot of details, but mostly b/c we were leaving once we were done. i left my stuff there and went over by Mercy to get the rest of my gear so i could leave. when i got back the guy was still on the route exactly where he had been for the last 20 or so minutes. i heard them start talking about a bail biner and then offered my Squid to clean the route. This is a great example of why you don't always want to be friendly with you draws and/or rope. had he been on my draws he'd been falling on them alot and i may have had to get on the route again to get my gear back and if he were on my rope it would have taken a beating. just my ramblings...

Post by **Artsay** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:32 pm

I had a similar thing happen a few months ago with Fuzzy Undercling. My draws were on it and I just figured I would get them at the end of the day since a lot of people wanted me to leave 'em up. But when I was ready to go there was a girl on it and it took her 45 minutes to get to the top. I had to wait to leave and was late meeting Ray because of it.

Post by **Toad** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:43 pm

Yeah. It's stuff like that which makes a person want to cut their rope, watch them fall to their death, use their broken body as a cheater stone so that you can climb the damn route and get back your draws.

Post by **Steve** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:50 pm

I went climbing once, turned into a hiking trip because I forgot my harness. Just a couple of months ago I was up at Roadside durning the week when I realized I had forgotten my harness. After Jill got done making fun of me for forgetting something, I asked around if anyone happen to have an extra harness I could borrow. It was odd to ask people, and I probabbly looked like a complete idiot, but hey I wanted to climb. I never expected anyone to loan me a harness, even if they had an extra one, but I thought I'd ask. Climbers are usually a friendly bunch, but that doesn't mean they're a walking gear store.
So I guess I wouldn't get upset if somebody asked me to borrow gear, and I wouldn't get upset if I asked and someone told me no.

Post by **michaelzr2** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:14 pm

No J-Rock that absolutely does not make you an asshole. I really hate people stepping all over my rope.

I had a similar experience last weekend at Indy Wall in Muir Valley. While i was waiting in line to climb, I rolled out my rope so i had something to sit on. The wall was packed and there were several dogs there as usual. One group's dog kept walking all over my rope and i really pissed me off. Their attitude was just "oh well, its not a big deal". I would have been a little more patient with them if they had apologized and tied the dogs up or kept a better eye on them, but they didn't.

Post by **Meadows** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:17 am

Artsay wrote: I don't think anyone sees draws on a route as hogging the route and I don't think anyone is bothered if anyone else uses they're draws. I thought we were talking about ropes?

What I was understanding from your post was that someone hangs her draws and then doesn't let anyone climb on them ... if you leave them up there. I guess you were probably talking about the Bare Metal situation.

Post by **mantra51** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:25 am

Ill let anyone use my rope for a nug.
No nug, no rope.

Post by **the lurkist** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:52 am

I think if you put your draws on a route and you are not actively on the route, you should let anyone go on your draws. A rope is one thing, but no one ever hurt anyone elses draws by leading on them. If you have occupied the route and are not one it, and the route IS community property, then, while it is good manners and decent crag courtesy for anyone else to ask first, you in turn should be willing to share the route, and by proxy your draws if they happen to be on the route.
I know that most of us usually do this, but i thought I would state the obvious anyway.
I would add though, that if you let others climb on your draws you always have to be prepared to get them back yourself if the person fails to get to the anchors and can't clean it.
And, too, I have had to call time on folks and let them know that "I need to go and either finish up or come down and let me go up this thing again so I can get my draws back." Perhaps rude, but, as Artsey said about her expeience at Military, you can get dragged into epics in gear retrieval.

Post by **marathonmedic** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:23 am

Of course if they don't want you to climb on their draws, you can always replace each draw with one of your own and then leave theirs clipped to the anchors.