Climbed out?

[Wes]

I am not saying that every route has been done, but I would bet the many of what people think are FA's these days have been done at one point already. My friend shawn has the best thoughts on stuff like this (he did a lot of development at rocktown), he doesn't think FA so much as just "verifing that the line goes".

[Ascentionist]

I agree that there are a lot of routes that you can just never know. Bob Callahan once said that you just never knew if some American Indian kid didn't solo some of the routes in his moccasins. I think that is a bit extreme. But you really just can't tell a lot of the time.

But there are some cases when you just know that its an FA.

But having said all that, I believe that a lot more routes have been done than have been reported. I've found a lot of climbing litter over the years, even before I started climbing. There are just too many people wandering around with the gear not to have done a lot of the unreported routes out there.

[rhino]

It's hard to tell guys.

Johnny and I did a line a while back and Johnny was positive it had never been done. As it turned out SCIN had done it just a few weeks before.

Also I know there are several lines that have been done in the last few years at established crags by people that don't discuss their sends with a whole lot of people.

Having said that, there are hundreds of trad lines out there that go to the top and haven't been done and if the bolting ban ever got lifted and you could put anchors on cracks that don't go all the way up and bolt face climbs ...I just get giddy thinking about it.

[haas]

haas, How do you know they haven't been done? Because they aren't in the guide book?

And there is a ton of sport route potential out there, even at established crags, but the FS says you can't bolt them.

It is true that I don't know absolutely that routes have not been done before. I would say that there generally is some evidence with webbing on a tree, a fixed nut to rap off of, cam marks in the lichen in the crack, chalk, broken hold marks, etc. but not always. I would also say that the climbing community is small and word spreads pretty quickly, especially now days with the internet and websites like this one. If I'm interested in doing a route I try and contact as many people as possible that are in the know to find out if anyone has done it, or if anyone is currently working it so I can find something else to do.
I would also be more inclined to say that routes on FS land would be undone because it is illegal to leave an anchor, including webbing as well as report it to friends even by word of mouth. So with that said I would guess many people wouldn't bother with a route that no one could know about, especially if they had to do any cleaning to do the line. But who knows, maybe that's dumb logic.

I would also agree there is a ton of sport route potential that unfortunatly may never come to be.

[Ascentionist]

Found an area relatively close to a known trad area. We did the two most obvious lines. I would say that with the first route we most likely were the FA and the second we were 100% the FA. I was so scared at the loose rock I was twitching, my two seconds busted off enough loose rock to gravel my driveway. No way that stuff had had climbers' feet on it before us. And the first route, which was about 10 feet away was much higher quality. So maybe someone did it, but I think they probably would have climbed the second while they were there. We did.

Also, another time I had found a really cool splitter way out in the backwoods. I got some people to go out there with me, I led up to a ledge and started belaying the others up. I was thinking it was probably an FA but more hopeful than reasonable. Sure enough the first guy up dug an old hex head with long rotted webbing out of the crack at the belay. I knew the line was too obvious not to have been done.

[J-Rock]

From "American Rock":

"When all the southern canyons are explored, all the escarpments of the Cumberland Plateau discovered and documented, the state of Kentucky will probably show the most rock, will probably turn out to be the mother lode of southeastern sandstone. Already well known to climbers everywhere is the Red River Gorge, with its complex tributary drainages. The Red has more than a thousand high-quality routes, and climbers there say they've developed only the most obvious, easily accessible cliffs. The countless little subcanyons that splinter off in dendritic patterns in all directions will likely triple the amount of climbing we see there today. But Kentucky climbing does't end with the famed Red River Gorge. To its south, running into Tennessee, are the vast canyons of the Big South Fork, potential for at least as much climbing as in the Red." --Don Mellor

Wow!

[charlie]

Hell yeah, BSF is the shit! There are a ton of cliffs, only problem is though it's identical to the Red it's a hell of a lot bigger. Makes for long approaches and everything's spread out, not like the little groups of crags here. It's got a ton of choss too so it's kinda hard to find the choice stuff.

Big thing, there are many quality boulders all over the place and they got this kick ass river running right through the middle!

<3 that place. My favorite river and maybe my favorite place to spend the weekend.