I'm witcha' homey!Toad wrote:Well Shit, I have all of the symptoms marathonmedic describes. They usually start when I wake and end at around 4:30pm on the weekdays.
Climber suicides
I took some time and surfed around for suicide statistics over lunch. I found two different references. One said that the percentages of deaths in the US attributed to suicide was 1.1%, while another said 1.2%.
So the number of known suicides among the group of dead climbers that I looked at in Rock and Ice is absolutely through the roof, nearly 20 times higher.
Another interesting statistic was that age 14-19 girls are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide that same-aged boys. However, the boys were 3 times more likely than the girls to get the job done. Who says guys can't do anything better than girls?
ZSpider
So the number of known suicides among the group of dead climbers that I looked at in Rock and Ice is absolutely through the roof, nearly 20 times higher.
Another interesting statistic was that age 14-19 girls are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide that same-aged boys. However, the boys were 3 times more likely than the girls to get the job done. Who says guys can't do anything better than girls?
ZSpider
Both my sister and I suffer from some form of clinical depression; mine is rather mild, but she attempted suicide 2 months ago. My Mom has also struggled with depression, and my father's mother recieved electroshock therapy twice for it. It would seem obvious that, sometimes, clinical depression is biological.marathonmedic wrote:Several studies have found a higher incidence of suicide among family members of patients who have attempted suicide.[/i]
As it happens, it is. Just as diabetes is cause by the body's inability to produce and regulate insulin, depression is often caused by the body's certain neurotransmitters and other biochemicals, specifically serotonin. Drugs such as Prozac correct that imblance when appropriately prescriped; no one would think to criticize a diabetic for using insulin, so I think our society has developed an overly critical opinion of Prozac and other serotonin-uptak-inhibitors.
Of course, drugs are not necessarily the be-all, end-all solution. I took Prozac for 2 years, and it helped me climb out of the hole I'd been living in since I was 12. I discontinued use this fall while I was beginning a regular (mostly) yoga practice, and this substitution seems to work for me. I'm not saying everyone should go out and become a yogi, but it may work for some.
As a side note, thanks to everyone who's posted on this thread. Mental health is a subject we seem to obsess over but never discuss intelligently
the clinician in me had to respond to this thread.
as pointed out above, suicide is one of the 10 leading causes of deaths in the u.s. each year, but if you look at age groups, you'll notice that among young men, suicide is much higher - it falls just below accidents as one of the leading causes of death. thus, in noting the high # of suicides among climbers, we should also look at the age group of these folks.
And, it is correct that young women/teenage girls attempt suicide more often, but they are more likely to attempt using methods such as taking pills, etc. whereas young men are more likely to choose a firearm or the like, making the "success" (though really, it isn't a success when we lose someone to suicide) rate much higher.
interestingly - as many of our climbing friends are young men and women who fit the demographic profile for being more likely to commit suicide, we should all know the warning signs to look for. there is a relatively easy suicide risk checklist that is handy - especially if you are worried about a friend/family member -
S - sex - (males more likely)
A - age - (19-45 is the more likely age to commit/try suicide)
D - has the person suffered from depression?
P - previous attempt?
E - ethanol use/abuse (drug or alcohol use really)
R - loss of rational thinking
S - social support - does the individual lack good social support?
O - do they have an organized plan?
N - no spouse.partner
S - sickness - does the person suffer from any chronic illness? debilitating injury?
answering yes to 5 or more merits clinical intervention - not that we are all trained clinicians, but we can certainly reach out to friends/coworkers if we are wary of their state of mind/state of being.
mental illness does cary a great deal of stigma in our society, but really, it shouldn't. at some point in their lives, one in three adults will experience mental illness - be it chronic or short term. we all grapple with our own mental health - though there is definitely a difference in being depressed because you didn't send your project and suffereing from chronic depression. adult males are less likely to seek assistance (from a MD, therapist, etc.) for mental health issues than are women... (of interest...)
good discussion - and not a "usual" one for this forum.
as pointed out above, suicide is one of the 10 leading causes of deaths in the u.s. each year, but if you look at age groups, you'll notice that among young men, suicide is much higher - it falls just below accidents as one of the leading causes of death. thus, in noting the high # of suicides among climbers, we should also look at the age group of these folks.
And, it is correct that young women/teenage girls attempt suicide more often, but they are more likely to attempt using methods such as taking pills, etc. whereas young men are more likely to choose a firearm or the like, making the "success" (though really, it isn't a success when we lose someone to suicide) rate much higher.
interestingly - as many of our climbing friends are young men and women who fit the demographic profile for being more likely to commit suicide, we should all know the warning signs to look for. there is a relatively easy suicide risk checklist that is handy - especially if you are worried about a friend/family member -
S - sex - (males more likely)
A - age - (19-45 is the more likely age to commit/try suicide)
D - has the person suffered from depression?
P - previous attempt?
E - ethanol use/abuse (drug or alcohol use really)
R - loss of rational thinking
S - social support - does the individual lack good social support?
O - do they have an organized plan?
N - no spouse.partner
S - sickness - does the person suffer from any chronic illness? debilitating injury?
answering yes to 5 or more merits clinical intervention - not that we are all trained clinicians, but we can certainly reach out to friends/coworkers if we are wary of their state of mind/state of being.
mental illness does cary a great deal of stigma in our society, but really, it shouldn't. at some point in their lives, one in three adults will experience mental illness - be it chronic or short term. we all grapple with our own mental health - though there is definitely a difference in being depressed because you didn't send your project and suffereing from chronic depression. adult males are less likely to seek assistance (from a MD, therapist, etc.) for mental health issues than are women... (of interest...)
good discussion - and not a "usual" one for this forum.
Damn Pete - i got about six of your nine situations goin' on in any given time. I feel pretty good about life though. Not ready to give it up soon anyway! But - we as climbers embrace life in a personal, meaningful, and strong way. It makes sense to me that we we would embrace death in the same manner - as an inevitible (gulp and final) part of life. It makes sense to want to live and die to the fullest. Death must have its most meaning to those who have lived it. I'm not saying that anybody - including myself should go out there and die. Death is the most serious of shit - but it is part of life and you have to respect the wishes and thoughts of those who have chosen to partake in it in their own way.
Zspider wrote:
I can't remember the source, but I read that teenage girls often stage suicide attempts with the intent of being found before death actually occurs.Another interesting statistic was that age 14-19 girls are 4 times more likely to attempt suicide that same-aged boys. However, the boys were 3 times more likely than the girls to get the job done. Who says guys can't do anything better than girls?
What I love about running is you can meditate while running. It's a peaceful place.
Sister Mary Elizabeth Lloyd, Runs marathons to raise money and awareness about children orphaned by AIDS
Sister Mary Elizabeth Lloyd, Runs marathons to raise money and awareness about children orphaned by AIDS
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marathonmedic
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dipsi, that actually happens more often that you might think. It not just drama either; some of these people actually want help but don't know what to do or are afraid they won't be taken seriously.
Pete's right about the methods, too. Some tend to have much higher completion rates although very few are foolproof. I really like that memnonic. I'm going to pass it on to a few people.
Z, keep in mind that that magazine was also a very select sample. Also, death statistics in this country are notoriously inaccurate. The number of autopsies has plummeted in the past 10 years and as a result the death certificates (which is where the data comes from) are very inaccurate. I just saw something a few weeks ago that said the cause of death was listed wrong in about 25% of cases. From what I've seen, that's about right.
Pete's right about the methods, too. Some tend to have much higher completion rates although very few are foolproof. I really like that memnonic. I'm going to pass it on to a few people.
Z, keep in mind that that magazine was also a very select sample. Also, death statistics in this country are notoriously inaccurate. The number of autopsies has plummeted in the past 10 years and as a result the death certificates (which is where the data comes from) are very inaccurate. I just saw something a few weeks ago that said the cause of death was listed wrong in about 25% of cases. From what I've seen, that's about right.
Ticking is gym climbing outdoors.
Oh, that was never out of my mind. It is actually foremost in my mind. This was not just a random cross-section of climbers. They didn't make the list just because they're dead. They were the elite, out there on the edge. Well, at least most of them were. It made me wonder about the top dogs in other arenas, and whether their suicide rates are higher than the norm. My guess is that it is.marathonmedic wrote:
Z, keep in mind that that magazine was also a very select sample.
ZSpider
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marathonmedic
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