Does anyone else think that a BOD that elects its own members is bound to be an incestuous fuck-fest?
Good point Alan Evil
I didn't mean to imply that all member of the RRGCC are like this but the founder(s) and current leadership perpetuate this.
If they really cared about the Red and seriously wanted more help from the climbing community the parties who have such a bad reputation would step down and out of it completely.
This goes way beyond someone having a few personality clashes with a few people. The general thought among everyone I know is contempt and disgust.
Gretchen is a BITCH
on a fine day last fall my wife and i went to the murray property to help out. my wife is a nonclimber for the most part and sometimes has ...umm negative feelings about me/us/them but she went to keep me happy. there was a bunch of us there - wes, terry, gretchen and hubby, tina and johnny and their sons. we worked all day trail buliding, step building, clearing brush, setting routes, sweating - a lot. johnny laid out trails and we tried to follow his flagging tape - often deveating for better options - wes - in search of rocks for steps - reached bare armed into NASTY mud banks and wresteled out these big damn rocks like he was king kong or something!!! I t was awsome to watch and awsome to be a part of. my wife talked about how much fun she had - with climbers! and...it was the last time i got to see johnny again. this was/is a day i'll remember when im an old old man. to me - that's the coalition ... us. enjoying, working, pulling together, bitching sometimes, laughing - and sometimes ever shedding a tear or two together. that's what it's all about for me. people can say what they will - boards can do what they will - but to me ...it's what we do under the big blue sky together that counts. i love you all.
John E and I were there that day. We had good time too.KD wrote:on a fine day last fall my wife and i went to the murray property to help out. my wife is a nonclimber for the most part and sometimes has ...umm negative feelings about me/us/them but she went to keep me happy. there was a bunch of us there - wes, terry, gretchen and hubby, tina and johnny and their sons. we worked all day trail buliding, step building, clearing brush, setting routes, sweating - a lot. johnny laid out trails and we tried to follow his flagging tape - often deveating for better options - wes - in search of rocks for steps - reached bare armed into NASTY mud banks and wresteled out these big damn rocks like he was king kong or something!!! I t was awsome to watch and awsome to be a part of. my wife talked about how much fun she had - with climbers! and...it was the last time i got to see johnny again. this was/is a day i'll remember when im an old old man. to me - that's the coalition ... us. enjoying, working, pulling together, bitching sometimes, laughing - and sometimes ever shedding a tear or two together. that's what it's all about for me. people can say what they will - boards can do what they will - but to me ...it's what we do under the big blue sky together that counts. i love you all.
I'm an experienced woman; I've been around... well, alright, I might not've been around, but I've been... nearby.
~ Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show)
~ Mary Richards (Mary Tyler Moore Show)
KD - Yes, that's a wonderful image that I too would love to be part of someday - REALLY much so. What is difficult for me at this time and age is to truly put efforts in the coalition for what I know today.
Rest assure, there are a lot of people like me who have really bad feelings about what has happened to them, while giving their free time away to this organization.
The image you have painted before us could also go on - and perhaps even much more of it, and perhaps on a regular basis too. I honestly think that it wouldn't take very much to accomplish this. There are after all some very good people working for the coalition right now, but as I very well know, they do not really have a total saying and are not able to change RRGCC's way - not at this time.
Replacing a few people would completely fix this problem, would encourage others to participate more in trail days, would... well, would be very beneficial.
I have had my conflicts with even Ryan - but I do trust him, and there are others too like Dr. Bob, Captain Static, and others who can only contribute, and help as much as they can. All their time and other resources are limited though (well, I assume).
Again, I would love to be more part of the coalition - and I am sure more would too - even though they have a sour feeling left in their stomach about the whole thing...What would it take? Actually not very much:
1. Double to BOD.
2. Get raid of unproductive BOD.
3. Get raid of non-diplomatic BOD - or at least make restriction on their total behavior if that's even possible - basically hide them from the public altogether.
4. Current BOD, and current other volunteers are doing far too much work, and that's still way too little, therefore create a task force with sole purpose of sharing information with the public, get the public TOTALLY involved, and distriute all the work as best as you can.
As Mark always said with a big smile:
"Many hands make light work..." - it always put a smile on my face.
Yeah... I have been involved with the RRGCC for a while - I can tell you this:
Right now, at least two people I know are laughing there butts off thinking: "Pufff... he thinks he knows everything... we don't have time to manage all of these people... he doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about..."
Well, here are some news for you both: I am NOT the only who thinks that more people must be involved. That should be clear to you right about now.
I will add something that may be worth mentioning:
You (just couple of individuals of the RRGCC) are right on one thing: You cannot possibly have the time to manage all of the volunteers that the RRGCC needs - not under the current plan of action which is to MICRO-MANAGE all of us.
We, for the most part, are grown-men and grown-women (with kids heart, and a love for play time). We do not need to be managed or threated like children. So, if you cannot stop micro-managing, you may not obtain enough help from climbers. If you cannot stop this micro-bull, then our RRGCC may calapse sooner than you think and the hard work of people like Wes and Ryan will go down the drain.
If you cannot change your behavior that is in my opinion an erre-in-personality, you might as well simply step down from where you are, and walk away now before you sink the coalition. Green?
Rest assure, there are a lot of people like me who have really bad feelings about what has happened to them, while giving their free time away to this organization.
The image you have painted before us could also go on - and perhaps even much more of it, and perhaps on a regular basis too. I honestly think that it wouldn't take very much to accomplish this. There are after all some very good people working for the coalition right now, but as I very well know, they do not really have a total saying and are not able to change RRGCC's way - not at this time.
Replacing a few people would completely fix this problem, would encourage others to participate more in trail days, would... well, would be very beneficial.
I have had my conflicts with even Ryan - but I do trust him, and there are others too like Dr. Bob, Captain Static, and others who can only contribute, and help as much as they can. All their time and other resources are limited though (well, I assume).
Again, I would love to be more part of the coalition - and I am sure more would too - even though they have a sour feeling left in their stomach about the whole thing...What would it take? Actually not very much:
1. Double to BOD.
2. Get raid of unproductive BOD.
3. Get raid of non-diplomatic BOD - or at least make restriction on their total behavior if that's even possible - basically hide them from the public altogether.
4. Current BOD, and current other volunteers are doing far too much work, and that's still way too little, therefore create a task force with sole purpose of sharing information with the public, get the public TOTALLY involved, and distriute all the work as best as you can.
As Mark always said with a big smile:
"Many hands make light work..." - it always put a smile on my face.
Yeah... I have been involved with the RRGCC for a while - I can tell you this:
Right now, at least two people I know are laughing there butts off thinking: "Pufff... he thinks he knows everything... we don't have time to manage all of these people... he doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about..."
Well, here are some news for you both: I am NOT the only who thinks that more people must be involved. That should be clear to you right about now.
I will add something that may be worth mentioning:
You (just couple of individuals of the RRGCC) are right on one thing: You cannot possibly have the time to manage all of the volunteers that the RRGCC needs - not under the current plan of action which is to MICRO-MANAGE all of us.
We, for the most part, are grown-men and grown-women (with kids heart, and a love for play time). We do not need to be managed or threated like children. So, if you cannot stop micro-managing, you may not obtain enough help from climbers. If you cannot stop this micro-bull, then our RRGCC may calapse sooner than you think and the hard work of people like Wes and Ryan will go down the drain.
If you cannot change your behavior that is in my opinion an erre-in-personality, you might as well simply step down from where you are, and walk away now before you sink the coalition. Green?
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
You people don't know the facts and you are on here in a public place acting like what you say is not hurting real people. I have tried to stay out of it, but I can no longer sit here and watch you trash people's names and feelings as if there are no ramifications.
G* may have over stepped her bounds on a public board, but S* does not deserve being pulled into this quagmire.
I was a good friend of John (I only write his name here because he's passed and cannot be hurt by the publice viewing) and I know the history of how the rrgcc started. Blood sweat and tears my friend and S* started it. John did not even want to be involved with the coalition until S* convinced him it was the right thing to do. So, he gave her credit for saving climbing on the forest service land and at least pulling together what they together called a community. Since then the motives of the coalition has constantly been misattributed to people wanting power. There is no money. It is all work. There was so much to do and very few people to do it. There was not even a "board" until a few years ago. It was S* sitting in a little office 40 hours a week making phone calls, attending meetings with the forest service, meanwhile you were all sitting around whining that there was no communication.
Then a not so friendly oil company started putting up gates and telling us we couldn't climb. The coalition got involved and eventually purchased the land. This was not the original purpose and it has turned in to a quagmire of huge proportions because everyone outside the details thinks it was a power grab.
It was not. It is now a huge debt (over $200,000) and guess who worries about paying for it. John was instrumental in pushing for it, and contributed some free hours to research the deeds. S* contributed over 100 hours of research on the land, negotiated with murray, and then has put in 100s of hours working on a law suit to make sure this whole thing doesn't explode. John passed away.
Who is supposed to protect the land now?
S* wanted to call it a success and go back to climbing.
As for W* and quiting the board so quickly, read my posted note below.
You put in a few hours here and there and think you're going to change the whole direction of the coalition. It is natural for someone to hold onto what they started. Did you ever think that S* is just trying to protect her "ideas"? Once you found out how much work it is really to run such an organization, you ran away, because you can. There is no one left to do the work now. That's why B* the president is now on this site begging for new board members. I wish all of you that have constantly criticized will now stand up and do something.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor poor untouchables. The only ones that call someone elitist are the ones that will never be able to touch what the so-called "elitists" do, or think about doing.
All you can do is sit there and criticize and critique, then when someone asks you what you have done lately you say you got your feelings hurt when someone wasn't nice to you because you volunteered.
Has anyone ever heard of sticktoitness?
When you offer your help once and they don't bow down at your feet because "of course they need your help", you go "wa, wa, wa all the way home". And then you say, "I'll never help them again, their ingrates."
The rrgcc has been operating for longer than most of you have been climbing. The baton has been passed and still no one is picking up the slack. Wake up people, you act like children, no one is going to give you any more responsibility than you act like you deserve.
G* may have over stepped her bounds on a public board, but S* does not deserve being pulled into this quagmire.
I was a good friend of John (I only write his name here because he's passed and cannot be hurt by the publice viewing) and I know the history of how the rrgcc started. Blood sweat and tears my friend and S* started it. John did not even want to be involved with the coalition until S* convinced him it was the right thing to do. So, he gave her credit for saving climbing on the forest service land and at least pulling together what they together called a community. Since then the motives of the coalition has constantly been misattributed to people wanting power. There is no money. It is all work. There was so much to do and very few people to do it. There was not even a "board" until a few years ago. It was S* sitting in a little office 40 hours a week making phone calls, attending meetings with the forest service, meanwhile you were all sitting around whining that there was no communication.
Then a not so friendly oil company started putting up gates and telling us we couldn't climb. The coalition got involved and eventually purchased the land. This was not the original purpose and it has turned in to a quagmire of huge proportions because everyone outside the details thinks it was a power grab.
It was not. It is now a huge debt (over $200,000) and guess who worries about paying for it. John was instrumental in pushing for it, and contributed some free hours to research the deeds. S* contributed over 100 hours of research on the land, negotiated with murray, and then has put in 100s of hours working on a law suit to make sure this whole thing doesn't explode. John passed away.
Who is supposed to protect the land now?
S* wanted to call it a success and go back to climbing.
As for W* and quiting the board so quickly, read my posted note below.
You put in a few hours here and there and think you're going to change the whole direction of the coalition. It is natural for someone to hold onto what they started. Did you ever think that S* is just trying to protect her "ideas"? Once you found out how much work it is really to run such an organization, you ran away, because you can. There is no one left to do the work now. That's why B* the president is now on this site begging for new board members. I wish all of you that have constantly criticized will now stand up and do something.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poor poor untouchables. The only ones that call someone elitist are the ones that will never be able to touch what the so-called "elitists" do, or think about doing.
All you can do is sit there and criticize and critique, then when someone asks you what you have done lately you say you got your feelings hurt when someone wasn't nice to you because you volunteered.
Has anyone ever heard of sticktoitness?
When you offer your help once and they don't bow down at your feet because "of course they need your help", you go "wa, wa, wa all the way home". And then you say, "I'll never help them again, their ingrates."
The rrgcc has been operating for longer than most of you have been climbing. The baton has been passed and still no one is picking up the slack. Wake up people, you act like children, no one is going to give you any more responsibility than you act like you deserve.
cynic by nurture, trad by nature, AS IF they're mutually exclusive
