Muir Madness

Post by **diggum** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:06 pm

if you don't like how they do it...then go do it yourself piggy.

Post by **dhoyne** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:07 pm

Say what you want about ethics, it's UNQUESTIONINGLY safer to bolt on rap. And safety is what Muir Valley is all about. Whine elsewhere.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:07 pm

hmmm, diggum, please show me anywhere in my statement where i said I didn't like it??? and please show me anywhere I said I didn't already do that??? have you been taking your meds regularly?

Post by **diggum** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm

i took your bitching & moaning to mean that you didn't like it. apologies.

Post by **meetVA** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:15 pm

don't aplogize too quickly diggum. piggie likes to make assumptions and wild leaps of logic as well.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:15 pm

wow, bring up an alternative opinoin, and the barracudas are ready to pounce. "muir valley is all about safety".....so there are no trad lines there? we know that bolts are far safer than gear placements, don't we? and if safety is the concern, why not only top anchors, and mandate all routes need to be top roped, for safety's sake, of course.

sport climbing has used the "dumb denominator" to establish routes as of late. equippers think.."what would a novice do on this route? how can I remove as much risk as possible, and still call this climbing?"

A friend of mine likes to say "stick clipping..top roping one bolt at a time"...it lets you pretend to lead with none of the "risk"....

risk free climbing is not possible, but may I suggest placing bolts only three feet apart will help you maintain this grand illusion?

Post by **squeezindlemmon** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:17 pm

In Muir we do trad FA's on lead. Sport routes are usually bolted after rapping. Unless you're JJ, then you bolt on lead.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:19 pm

meetVA is right..because my arguments typically cut across the grain of the lockstep mentality of most posters here, then it surely must be based on assumptions and "wild" leaps of logic. haven't you learned that yet? only dissenters make wild leaps of logic. get in line behind the prevalent thought pattern to be considered wise.

Post by **Wes** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:44 pm

dhoyne wrote:Say what you want about ethics, it's UNQUESTIONINGLY safer to bolt on rap. And safety is what Muir Valley is all about. Whine elsewhere.

I don't think I agree with this statment at all. People, bolting on lead does not (always) mean bolting while free climbing. You AID the route, bolting as you go from hooks, cams and/or rivits, with a nice shiny bolt at your feet 99% of the time.

Bolting steep rock on rap is hella hard work, and is basically aid down climbing.

Wes

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:47 pm

wes,
you dare to argue with the gods....may all your hook placements be mank.