Booty Ethics

Post by **overhung** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:12 pm

The other thread prompts a question: let's say you've fixed a piece of gear on a route and are unable to retrieve it, because it's getting dark, cold, whatever. You run from the crag to your van, fire up the internet, and post that you accidentally fixed a piece, AND YOU FULLY INTEND TO RETURN IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS TO RETRIEVE IT. Is it still booty to those who read your post?

Post by **Saxman** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:16 pm

Nice people will leave it for you, or retrieve it and give it to you. Of course, people who are in the area are not going to be able read your post and therefore take it as booty. You could always leave a note attached to the piece allowing people to really laugh at you.

Post by **diggum** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:18 pm

If they're assholes it would be booty.

If they have ever lost an expensive piece of gear or have compassion for fellow climbers (or both) then they would return it...or leave it there for you to get later.

Post by **overhung** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:22 pm

The only reason I pose the question is that is what happened to me once. I fixed a cam on that cowboy route at Pistol Ridge once and left at dark. Posted that it was fixed and damned if it wasn't gone the next day. May be a coincidence, but it was like 25 degrees outside.

Post by **Wes** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:27 pm

Once you leave the route, it is open booty. Now, the retriever has the option of returning the gear, but if they do so, then a 6 pack of good beer and/or pizza is the expected payment.

Wes

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:31 pm

people who keep trad booty are not assholes. It's a tradition--you find it, it's yours to keep. Of course you are free to seek the loser who stuck it. Returning gear is NOT the norm, except in the case of accidents/injuries.

If someone announces, either here or at Miguel's, or wherever, that they stuck a piece and plan to go get it back right away, I think that anyone who intentionally skanks it is a POS. BUT, the person who stuck it is kidding themselves if they think announcing they stuck a piece makes it non-booty to someone who happens upon it.

Post by **lordjim_2001** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:31 pm

Wes wrote:Once you leave the route, it is open booty. Now, the retriever has the option of returning the gear, but if they do so, then a 6 pack of good beer and/or pizza is the expected payment.

Wes

plus a bit more if they are uber cool and ship the gear to you.

Post by **overhung** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:31 pm

Well, in my case the cam was a Rock Empire, so it literally wasn't worth beer and/or pizza.

Post by **diggum** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:36 pm

Is it still booty to those who read your post?

This is who I was calling an asshole. If you read about it & still keep it. I wouldn't want that bad karma.
I'd feel guilty everytime I saw it.

Post by **squeezindlemmon** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:37 pm

I agree with davsa and Wes. Gear left is always booty. If you ever left one and then found another in a different route, it's just your karma working. Same deal with the beer for returned gear.

Once, J-Rock dropped a tcu on a multipitch climb. The guy who I was sharing the belay ledge with rappeled one whole pitch to get the tcu back. He could have kept it, considering the trouble he had to go through (rapping on gear), but he gave it back to Jared. Of course beer was promised as a thank you.

Now there are exceptions, like the blanket statement Weber left for Muir Valley about gear not being booty until developers are done with establishing the routes....