I won't be a hypocrite and say that I rapped off every single route I've cleaned. But we're talking preference here, so I vote rapping off.
If someone does not have a clear mind, who's to say they can safely clean the route before asking the belayer to lower them? IMO, if you're less experienced, you shouldn't be cleaning in the first place. I think there is as much room for error in both cases. It's up to the individual.
Of course, there is also the factor of trusting your life to someone else instead of your own hands. If you can't trust yourself enough to be able to lower your own ass to the ground, how can you trust someone else to do it for you?
Rappelling or lowering off?
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squeezindlemmon
- Posts: 1452
- Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:02 pm
All routes should have sacrificial quick links or rings so you can either rap or lower. Then you can do whatever is most comfortable for you without worrying about the permanent anchor wear. I prefer to rap and feel it’s safer. I know damn well that the system is good to go and don't have to rely on someone I may not know very well. You can even test it/weight it before you unclip. But, for steep routes you have to lower.
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andy_lemon
- Posts: 1566
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:22 am
Fact is, all routes don't. Even if they did, it is mighty bold to be calling $5 to $15 worth of gear, per route, sacrificial. You planning on replacing it when it does wear out?TradMike wrote:All routes should have sacrificial quick links or rings so you can either rap or lower.
If anyone is questioning the fact that hardware will wear at extremely rappid rates you should examine some of your local cold shunts... being top roped and lowered off of them they show signs of obvious wear. There is a reason the Weber's assigned route experts to Muir Valley, and there is a reason they do not use cold shunts... just guessing I would say the reason is because there is a large group of extremely lazy climbers (where did I get that idea?).
And what is the question with the inexperienced belayer...? You would trust someone to belay you as you go up but you wouldn't trust them to lower you?!?!
Not a bitch.
You may not trust them period - either going up or down. Don't fall on the way up and lower yourself. I have taken newbies climbing and I just treat it as a no fall situation. Climbing guides do it every day.andy_lemon wrote:And what is the question with the inexperienced belayer...? You would trust someone to belay you as you go up but you wouldn't trust them to lower you?!?!
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andy_lemon
- Posts: 1566
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:22 am
Personally, I've never heard of a "no fall situation" but taken the information you've just given me I should be able to extract some sort of a defination from The American Alpine Club or the AMGA.TradMike wrote:I have taken newbies climbing and I just treat it as a no fall situation. Climbing guides do it every day.
Not a bitch.
Am I missing something? Don't you have to untie to thread the chains whether you're lowering or rapping?
In one case (lowering) you have to retie your knot in an unconfortable position, sometimes with a bunch of crap already attached to your harness. In another (rappelling) you have to... pull on the rope and make sure it hits the ground. Which your belayer can confirm. And you can knot the ends just in case. And back your repel up with a friction knot (who doesn't have a spare sling on them???). And have your partner give you a Fireman's belay if you're really unsure. Seems alot safer to rap to me; at least there's tons more redundancy. Where's the hard part - using the ATC? Hopefully you've mastered that already.
On steep overhangs, it is easier to be lowered. However, you can have your partner give you a fireman's belay to help reach gear if you're rapping and need to retrieve gear.
In one case (lowering) you have to retie your knot in an unconfortable position, sometimes with a bunch of crap already attached to your harness. In another (rappelling) you have to... pull on the rope and make sure it hits the ground. Which your belayer can confirm. And you can knot the ends just in case. And back your repel up with a friction knot (who doesn't have a spare sling on them???). And have your partner give you a Fireman's belay if you're really unsure. Seems alot safer to rap to me; at least there's tons more redundancy. Where's the hard part - using the ATC? Hopefully you've mastered that already.
On steep overhangs, it is easier to be lowered. However, you can have your partner give you a fireman's belay to help reach gear if you're rapping and need to retrieve gear.
Sarcasm is a tool the weak use to avoid confrontation. People with any balls just outright lie.
[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]
[quote="Meadows"]I try not to put it in my mouth now, but when I do, I hold it with just my lips.[/quote]
When I clean anchors I always lower off. I was taught to clean in a way that I'm never off belay. I like that. There's no danger of me screwing up, dropping the rope, forgetting to tie in or anything like that. I tell my belayer when I have enough slack, tie a figure 8 and I'm still on belay. While rapping down is easier on gear, I am more comfortable knowing that I never have to untie.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast