Zspider wrote:I agree with the bush. Rapping is a far more dangerous process than simply being lowered. Instituting a "Please rap" policy may be penny-wise and safety-foolish. I would humbly suggest that you might want to rethink this, Rick.
ZSpider
I think the policy simply states SAFETY FIRST.
weber wrote:Please understand that if you or anyone else has a strong preference for lowering, then do so. There are no hard and fast rules in the Valley other than keeping it as safe as possible.
weber wrote:The bottom line is this: Regardless of how you return to the deck -- rapping or lowering -- do it safely. If you are in Muir Valley and you do not feel safe in rapping off, then by all means have your belayer lower you. Hardware is cheap; hospitals aren't.
Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our mind. ~Bob Marley
Thank you Karla, for showing that I did, indeed, moderate my original comment. Some very good points have been made here in this thread. Thanks to all.
Taking my best R. Nixon posture, let me make this perfectly clear. Go from top to bottom in the manner you personally feel is the safest for you. Period. In the Valley, no one will chastise or even raise an eyebrow. Of course this applies to rapping and lowering. Toproping through the chains or rings should be avoided; I think there is universal agreement here.
Regardless of how you do your thing, please, PLEASE report to t_bone or me any loose, worn, or suspicious piece of hardware you encounter on a Muir route! We can remedy a problem only if we know about it. And, please be specific. i.e. "the 17th bolt on 'Zodiac' is loose."
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
weber wrote:I wonder how many climbers here in the Red know how to escape a belay safely - either to ascend to the climber or go get help? Darned few, I'll bet.
I started to do a bit of research and I found this. I still want to practice it a few times, but at least I know the idea now.
*I started to do a bit of research and I found this. I still want to practice it a few times, but at least I know the idea now.*
Last post then I'll shut up.
This of course only applies to an emergency situation involving a disabled lead climber...
Using a grigri also simplifies escaping the belay when standing on the ground and belaying while sport climbing. To escape, let go of both ends of the rope, tie a back-up knot in the brake end of the rope, batman or climb up to the first bolt (which won't be hard because you're being counterweighted by the disabled climber above you), clip the grigri into the first bolt and either jump or rap off. You're free. Hmm...now what?
Why wouldn't you just lower them back to the ground?
Wes
bushwhacker wrote:*I started to do a bit of research and I found this. I still want to practice it a few times, but at least I know the idea now.*
Last post then I'll shut up.
This of course only applies to an emergency situation involving a disabled lead climber...
Using a grigri also simplifies escaping the belay when standing on the ground and belaying while sport climbing. To escape, let go of both ends of the rope, tie a back-up knot in the brake end of the rope, batman or climb up to the first bolt (which won't be hard because you're being counterweighted by the disabled climber above you), clip the grigri into the first bolt and either jump or rap off. You're free. Hmm...now what?
you guys are funny. Me and all the guys her in Columbus must be extreemly safe or just lucky, I've been climbing for a little over ten years now, primarily at the Red River Gorge and i have never seem an accident involving someone being lowered from a sport climb. I nearly killed myself about 8 years ago rapping at Seneca, almost rapped off the end of my rope. Rappeling is dangerous. Also in the ten+ years I have been climbing I have seem many horribly worn anchors at the Red and the New but I've never ever heard of any of them failing. Again maybe I've just been really lucky.
Rick I am glad you are looking into the best hardware avail and are realitic about the potential accidents and deaths at Muir. There will be many many many gym rates who never get on this board and will probably never check out your web page and they will be there at the Great Wall doing all the things you'd rather they not do..all summer. They don't teach rapelling at the gym.
