"no it's not.
i don't know shit about ice climbing. luckily this isn't redrivericeclimbing.com though."
yes it is. yeah luckily or it would be pretty freaking empty wouldn't it.
slash
Ice grades are like climbing overhanging routes in the red - they judge the pump factor and sometimes don't really judge the hardest move but give it that extra little cushion because of the pump. Grades increase with the angle of the climb fro positive, to vert, to negative.
WI2 - a ramp with some short sections of ice up to 80 degrees
WI3- sustained ice up to 80 degrees, with good ice and places to rest
WI4 - sustained pitch of vertical or slightly less than vert. and can have features like chandeliers. may have runouts
WI5 - A long streneous pitch of dead vert to slightly overhanging with no rests, or a short hard pitch up featureless ice.
WI6 - Just like WI5, only a rope stretching pitch with no rests and generally bad ice quality. Placing gear is a bitch
WI7 - a full pitch of thin ice with dubious adhesion. Hard mentally and physically.
as for the trad, I agree with HoFo - no it's not
WI2 - a ramp with some short sections of ice up to 80 degrees
WI3- sustained ice up to 80 degrees, with good ice and places to rest
WI4 - sustained pitch of vertical or slightly less than vert. and can have features like chandeliers. may have runouts
WI5 - A long streneous pitch of dead vert to slightly overhanging with no rests, or a short hard pitch up featureless ice.
WI6 - Just like WI5, only a rope stretching pitch with no rests and generally bad ice quality. Placing gear is a bitch
WI7 - a full pitch of thin ice with dubious adhesion. Hard mentally and physically.
as for the trad, I agree with HoFo - no it's not
ice grades are well known to often not mean anything,
take a long slab of 1 inch ice that takes picks but no gear, you can rest anywhere on the thing yet falling will likely put you at rest-- by your rating this is WI7?
To me R and X ratings mean something when I'm getting ready to do a trad lead. They mean that i'll have to keep my cool longer and more often than if pro was bomber throughout. It means I'll have to pay extra attention to putting bomber gear where I can get it. For me, this increases the mental difficulty of the route and therefore, the overall difficulty of the route. Until I see more people soloing and eschewing gear while onsiting at their limit, I'll believe more of what you guys are saying. I mean why would people purposely make climbs more difficult for themselves. If run-outs don't have anything to do with a climb's difficulty, why not just start pulling out bolts that aren't necessary and make the climbs easier? How about Bare Metal Teen ,(i'm tired of using WYT as an example as this climb isn't difficult or scary or very good for that matter), I think you could easily remove bolt 5 and maybe 6, not deck and have a lot "easier" climb? It would be 11c or d then probably, because you wouldn't be as pumped and the Gorge ratings are pump related. Even though most of the climbs at the Motherlode have run-out tops, they could all be more run -out and a lot of the middle bolts could be removed as well, making those all easier climbs too.
take a long slab of 1 inch ice that takes picks but no gear, you can rest anywhere on the thing yet falling will likely put you at rest-- by your rating this is WI7?
To me R and X ratings mean something when I'm getting ready to do a trad lead. They mean that i'll have to keep my cool longer and more often than if pro was bomber throughout. It means I'll have to pay extra attention to putting bomber gear where I can get it. For me, this increases the mental difficulty of the route and therefore, the overall difficulty of the route. Until I see more people soloing and eschewing gear while onsiting at their limit, I'll believe more of what you guys are saying. I mean why would people purposely make climbs more difficult for themselves. If run-outs don't have anything to do with a climb's difficulty, why not just start pulling out bolts that aren't necessary and make the climbs easier? How about Bare Metal Teen ,(i'm tired of using WYT as an example as this climb isn't difficult or scary or very good for that matter), I think you could easily remove bolt 5 and maybe 6, not deck and have a lot "easier" climb? It would be 11c or d then probably, because you wouldn't be as pumped and the Gorge ratings are pump related. Even though most of the climbs at the Motherlode have run-out tops, they could all be more run -out and a lot of the middle bolts could be removed as well, making those all easier climbs too.
"Good things take time, impossible things take a little longer"
Percy Gerutty
Percy Gerutty
read the descriptions for the easier grades, where they progressively get harder and less rests, hence the pump factor. So sorry I didn't write overhanging and no rests since the easier grades already indicated that.
As for trad, R and X indicate the fall or runout potential. That's why it's there. There's no need to rate the climb harder since the grade is suppose to be based on the hardness of the moves. R and X indicate the hardness of the gear. I understand if that makes the route harder for some people who don't have a cool head about those things, but it doesn't necessarily make the climb harder for everyone else. People who are fine with runouts will still say the grade is 5.10a or whatever, as will the person who seconds it on toprope. As for onsight soloing near or at your their limit, there are tons of people famous and not who do it. Henry Barber, Derek Hersey, Peter Croft, Dean Potter, Timmy O'Neal and shit load more no one has ever heard of. If you have a problem going more then 6 feet between bomber pieces, stick to sport climbing. Climbing is suppose to be about adventures and creativity of expression. Both of which are taken away by bolts. When was the last time anyone had an epic on a sport climb?
As for trad, R and X indicate the fall or runout potential. That's why it's there. There's no need to rate the climb harder since the grade is suppose to be based on the hardness of the moves. R and X indicate the hardness of the gear. I understand if that makes the route harder for some people who don't have a cool head about those things, but it doesn't necessarily make the climb harder for everyone else. People who are fine with runouts will still say the grade is 5.10a or whatever, as will the person who seconds it on toprope. As for onsight soloing near or at your their limit, there are tons of people famous and not who do it. Henry Barber, Derek Hersey, Peter Croft, Dean Potter, Timmy O'Neal and shit load more no one has ever heard of. If you have a problem going more then 6 feet between bomber pieces, stick to sport climbing. Climbing is suppose to be about adventures and creativity of expression. Both of which are taken away by bolts. When was the last time anyone had an epic on a sport climb?
Lateralus, dude don't waste your time discussing/arguing ratings here.
Green3, your right they are awesome classics, just climb them and have fun.
Ro is 11a now...
just get it wired, you'll see..it's like majic, the crimps at the top and the pocket down low turn into jugs right before your eyes...super cool to see!
Green3, your right they are awesome classics, just climb them and have fun.
Ro is 11a now...
just get it wired, you'll see..it's like majic, the crimps at the top and the pocket down low turn into jugs right before your eyes...super cool to see!"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
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Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
most climbers are not willing to chance a fall near their limit if it means they are going to get badly hurt or die. for example, there are some 5.3 chosspiles that i would never solo because i would be freaked a hold would break. i'm pretty sure i am physically able to climb 5.3, but that doesn't have anything to do with it. lateralus, you are completely wrong and i am right. you can admit it.
Yo HO!! Just got me a code red and some funyons big dawg!!! SHIT YEAH! - Ray, excited about his breakfast
