Uh, I hate to get picky (yeah, right) but the leeches did not eat any flesh. They use maggots for that. Leeches are used mostly on reattached body parts as they both pull blood through the wound and prevent the blood from clotting. With dead flesh doctors usually use maggots now as they only eat the dead flesh and prevent gangrene and other hideous infections. I could be wrong but I read a really long article in a science magazine about this.
I most clearly remember hearing the tale of an African man who had horrible wounds but had somehow made it several days (maybe even a week?) through the bush to a hospital. His wounds were writhing with maggots but he seemed to be doing well. The doctors of course immediately washed the wounds and cleared away all the maggots and within 24 hours the man's system was overwhelmed by gangrene and he died.
The moral of this story: no matter how you look at it, maggots and leeches are fucking gross.
Voluntary route closure at Solar Collector
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Roentgen Ray
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:28 pm
On the sub-topic of maggots (i.e. doctors aren't so stupid after all) and the African man. Maggots used medically are grown in sterile conditions and are free of disease. All maggots in the wild contain bacteria and/or viruses in their gastrointestinal tract and should be considered as dangerous as rubbing dung in your wounds. So, the African who died after the maggots were washed off likely died of a system wide infection that lead to cardiovascular collapse and multiorgan failure. The infection may well have come from the maggots. My advise: if you're out in the woods with a wound, go ahead and wash the maggots off.
Quod me nutrit, me destruit.
This sounded like one of those situations where the wound was so massive and the conditions so bad that washing anything was out of the question.
The thing is, if those maggots hatched on his wound they wouldn't have carried over any disease from their parent, would they? They would've been eggs before (I'm pretty sure that's which comes first in the egg or the maggot question) and eggs are sterile to begin with, right? So they shouldn't have been adding contaminants and by eating the dead flesh they would be preventing the growth of gangrene and other bacterial invasions. Right?
I'm not a doctor but I play one on the internet...
So if you see a woodrat with maggots in a wound you should probably leave it alone. Actually you should run. Don't want to get bitten by a diseased woodrat, now do we?
The thing is, if those maggots hatched on his wound they wouldn't have carried over any disease from their parent, would they? They would've been eggs before (I'm pretty sure that's which comes first in the egg or the maggot question) and eggs are sterile to begin with, right? So they shouldn't have been adding contaminants and by eating the dead flesh they would be preventing the growth of gangrene and other bacterial invasions. Right?
I'm not a doctor but I play one on the internet...
So if you see a woodrat with maggots in a wound you should probably leave it alone. Actually you should run. Don't want to get bitten by a diseased woodrat, now do we?
[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
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Roentgen Ray
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:28 pm
Ditto on avoiding maggot covered woodrats. I will not feign any maggot expertise. However, I know that viral and bacterial infections can be transmitted in human parents to their offspring via the umbillical cord and in chickens to their eggs. Also, wild maggots generate waste products that are toxic to mammals. They must have worked this out in the medical lab maggots.
Quod me nutrit, me destruit.
Yeah, those medical use maggots are not only clean but they're cute! They've got great big eyes and make coo-ing sounds as they eat. If you pick one off the wound they cry, but it's a very quiet and cute crying.
The leeches still are quiet and ugly. However, if you stick one on your eyebrow it makes a fabulous ornament!
The leeches still are quiet and ugly. However, if you stick one on your eyebrow it makes a fabulous ornament!
[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
Me too!Leeches are endangered. Do your part: go sit naked in the nearest leech infested pool until they're all well fed. Be a good citizen.
[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
The entire reason for putting a sign or something on Green Horn is because neither this web site, nor rrgcc.org serves the majority of climbers. But that's fine. I believe that I have done all that I can to express my views.rhunt wrote:I went to the SC on Saturday, didn't see anyone there interested in discussing the issue. I did see LOTS of climbers warming up on green horn, non of them post on or read this web page. I love how all of us here at redriverclimbing.com think we are the voice of the climbing community...lol
I stayed off Green Horn but had it been the only route open I would have warmed up on it.
Oh and I sent Herd Mentality, Sweet route!
I still fall back on Mandala's expertise in this area and her statement that this animal is threatened. She knows more about this animal than any of you.
I also believe that this mentality will perpetuate cliff closures at the REd. If we don't take care of the property we own, maybe we don't deserve to be custodians.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast