Voluntary route closure at Solar Collector
Back to an earlier post. A guy I work with had a serious infection on the heel of his foot. He is diabetic and the circulation was so poor, the infection site did not have sufficient blood flow to fight. The tissue died and into the hospital he went.
The treatment was surgical removal of the dead tissue and then application of leeches. These little guys would be placed into the infection site where they could eat to their little hearts' content. They served 2 purposes: first, they did consume the dead tissue while leaving the viable tissue alone and second, they did help promote additional blood flow into the area.
They would drop a given number into the wound and then in an hour, they would come back and collect them. Once the leeches were full, they would just drop off and wiggle around on the bed sheet.
When they told my friend what they were going to do, he needed to be heavily sedated. Emotionally, he was at the point where he was dealing with having leeches be part of his treatment or probably loose his foot.
Now back to the Woodrat debate.
The treatment was surgical removal of the dead tissue and then application of leeches. These little guys would be placed into the infection site where they could eat to their little hearts' content. They served 2 purposes: first, they did consume the dead tissue while leaving the viable tissue alone and second, they did help promote additional blood flow into the area.
They would drop a given number into the wound and then in an hour, they would come back and collect them. Once the leeches were full, they would just drop off and wiggle around on the bed sheet.
When they told my friend what they were going to do, he needed to be heavily sedated. Emotionally, he was at the point where he was dealing with having leeches be part of his treatment or probably loose his foot.
Now back to the Woodrat debate.
Okay, now back to the debate...
These nests ARE present on MANY other routes at nearly every cliff at the Red River Gorge. This has often been witnessed by myself and several other climbers. There is also EMPIRICAL evidence of chewed nuts, collections of used toilet paper, bedding, feces, footprints, etc.
These nest are all over the place ON routes. Most of the time we are focused on the climbing and we don't even notice them unless we are looking for them. Ask any hard core trad climber if they have ever encountered rat nests while climbing ON routes at the Red. Most will have a story or two to tell you about the actual encounters. Of course, if I were as strong as the Lurkist I probably would be climbing lots of hard 5.12 and 5.13 steep overhanging climbs and I would not notice too many of them either.
How many times do you think a typical RRG trad climber has grabbed a dirty ledge covered in rat feces and not even noticed? Or even seen a nest along the way nestled into a hueco or a horizontal? How many of these climbers do you suppose have seen rat nests and not even bothered to post it on redriverclimbing.com or even logged on in the first place? I'd been climbing at the Red for almost 10 years before I ever logged onto this website. Now I am an addict. Dammit!
These nests ARE present on MANY other routes at nearly every cliff at the Red River Gorge. This has often been witnessed by myself and several other climbers. There is also EMPIRICAL evidence of chewed nuts, collections of used toilet paper, bedding, feces, footprints, etc.
These nest are all over the place ON routes. Most of the time we are focused on the climbing and we don't even notice them unless we are looking for them. Ask any hard core trad climber if they have ever encountered rat nests while climbing ON routes at the Red. Most will have a story or two to tell you about the actual encounters. Of course, if I were as strong as the Lurkist I probably would be climbing lots of hard 5.12 and 5.13 steep overhanging climbs and I would not notice too many of them either.
How many times do you think a typical RRG trad climber has grabbed a dirty ledge covered in rat feces and not even noticed? Or even seen a nest along the way nestled into a hueco or a horizontal? How many of these climbers do you suppose have seen rat nests and not even bothered to post it on redriverclimbing.com or even logged on in the first place? I'd been climbing at the Red for almost 10 years before I ever logged onto this website. Now I am an addict. Dammit!
Last edited by J-Rock on Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder
Anyway, if we are already discussing the idea of closing routes out of concern for a non-endangered or non-threatened species, then what is next? Where does it stop?
We are NOT talking about raptors, whooping cranes, or pteradactyls here. My point is this: It does not make sense to me to close routes for an animal that is not even threatened (especially considering that these nests are prevalent throughout the Red River Gorge on MANY routes). Also, to say that this one route is an anomaly is inaccurate.
If this discussion concerned an endangered or threatened species then there would be no debate and I'm fairly certain that all of us would agree and come together as a community to close whatever routes were affected. However, this is not the case with the wood rat.
We are NOT talking about raptors, whooping cranes, or pteradactyls here. My point is this: It does not make sense to me to close routes for an animal that is not even threatened (especially considering that these nests are prevalent throughout the Red River Gorge on MANY routes). Also, to say that this one route is an anomaly is inaccurate.
If this discussion concerned an endangered or threatened species then there would be no debate and I'm fairly certain that all of us would agree and come together as a community to close whatever routes were affected. However, this is not the case with the wood rat.
Last edited by J-Rock on Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder
Being an endangered species is not a given reason to restrict of close cliffs or routes. When this happens it is because the particular animal's existence is threathened by the presences of humans. In this case we A.) Do NOT know if this species of rats is endangered and B.) if our presences threatens it continued existence. This is what I have been trying to get across for past 5 pages and why I will not agree to closing this route or cliff until we have some FACTS...J-Rock wrote:If this discussion concerned an endangered or threatened species then there would be no debate and I'm fairly certain that all of us would agree and come together as a community to close whatever routes were affected. However, this is not the case with the wood rat.
In the words of 311 which is currently playing on my computer..."Fuck the Bull shit it's time to throw down"
The weather and conditions are freaking perfect now, go climbing and forget about these stupid rats..
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
Responses:
A. This species is not endangered
B. Our presence does not threaten its continued existence
Therefore, I also agree that we should not close this route or cliff until we have some more facts. However, how many facts will be enough? Yes, the weather is perfect now. If I see a another rat nest while I'm climbing then I will do what I always do: step around it.
A. This species is not endangered
B. Our presence does not threaten its continued existence
Therefore, I also agree that we should not close this route or cliff until we have some more facts. However, how many facts will be enough? Yes, the weather is perfect now. If I see a another rat nest while I'm climbing then I will do what I always do: step around it.
Last edited by J-Rock on Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Those iron spikes you use have shortened the life expectancy of the Totem Pole by 50,000 years."
--A Navaho elder
--A Navaho elder