Sanctuary sandbag

Post by **marathonmedic** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:40 am

512OW wrote:What you're talking about is extremely rare. Theres almost always an alternate way to do it. Ask Katie Brown.

Oh, there's ALWAYS another way to do it. But if that way involves the equivalent of a 5.14 move in the middle of a 5.10 route, what's the point of the "other" way? The point of ratings is to give people an idea of whether they have the skill to climb a route or not before they get on it.

Post by **512OW** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:49 am

MOST climbs can be done alternate ways and still be the same grade. For instance, if the shorter person has just reached where you did, but can't reach that giant hold that you can, maybe, with her smaller fingers, she can crimp something you can't. Ask Katie Brown.

You can't please everyone. You can't grade for everyone. Thus, the current practice of reaching a concensus based on the easiest way to climb the route on redpoint, be that worked or onsight. Formerly, and still by definition, redpoint means you place gear or hang draws as you go. In more recent years, its become common practice amongst sporties to call it a redpoint even if draws are in place. SO....there you have it. Thats the way its done. Period. Ask whomever you want. Grade however you want. It'll even out in the end. Grade by onsight.....then your ratings will just always get changed, and people won't trust your ratings.

I'll probably never climb there anyhow. Not cuz its not cool, but because I can go to the gym on my nights off, and I have no desire to climb a bunch of sport routes. Doesn't fit my plan.

That said, grade how you want. Sporties have been fuckin up the YDS for years....might as well keep the tradition going.

Post by **rabbit** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:16 am

Climbing is climbing. Sport climbing gets you stronger for trad routes, trad climbs get you stronger for sport, bouldering gets you stronger for everything. Concisely, it's self revealing in nature to diminish one's own achievements. There are lessons to be learned and you shouldn't isolate yourself. That includes sport climbing at new areas. Step outside the box...

Post by **marathonmedic** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:22 am

Man, that's pretty deep for this board. I'm impressed. Keep the thought-out thoughts coming. They're really refreshing after a lot of this drivel that is going around.

Post by **512OW** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:27 am

I agree with you wholeheartedly. BUT, I have no desire to step outside the box. I have 3 routes left to do, then I can stop climbing with a good conscience.. Like I said, it doesn't fit my plan, so why would I waste my time?

I would never suggest that one person stick to one type of climbing. Unless they have a plan that says otherwise.

Post by **ynot** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:29 am

Hes right. The sporties screw it up. They should have thier own scale like the ice climbers,boulderers and aid. sport and trad are different they need different scales.
then they can make up thier own rules all they want.

Post by **512OW** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:31 am

And why would I bother sport climbing in a new area when I havent sport climbed in all the old areas? So I can be in the "in" crowd and hang out with everybody all day?? No thanks. Climbing isn't a team sport for me.

Post by **SCIN** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:32 am

If you onsite a route and then give it a grade, isn't that rating it based on onsite? What is the FA supposed to do? Climb the route again just to give it a "redpoint grade"?

Post by **SCIN** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:33 am

512OW wrote:I agree with you wholeheartedly. BUT, I have no desire to step outside the box. I have 3 routes left to do, then I can stop climbing with a good conscience.. Like I said, it doesn't fit my plan, so why would I waste my time?

I would never suggest that one person stick to one type of climbing. Unless they have a plan that says otherwise.

Which three routes?

Post by **ynot** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:34 am

I was told the second grades it and the FA names it. Makes good sense to me.