Dick Cheney

Post by **Uncle Big Green** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:18 pm

most of you are full of shit and I'll tell you why. whether you're a demopublican or repocrat, you think that your side does no wrong (accusing the other side of not answering questions or taking the other side's vote out of context) while your boy does the same damn thing. it's degraded into an 'us vs. them' attitude. get on the winning team and if your team loses then it's temper tantrum time. I love all the voter hysteria this election. nothing like some good old blind hatred to take the spotlight off legitimate and informed reasons to bitch.

this is what you get for thinking it's the govt's job to take your neighbors' $$$ to fund your favt. little project, war or whatever. guess what - your neighbor may get pissed. if your neighbor wants to do the same thing, but for something of which you don't approve, then you get pissed. you'd both get along much better if you kept your hands out of each other's wallets and spent your own damned $$$ on your interests.

Post by **lordjim_2001** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:19 pm

pm sent Crankmas

Post by **Paul3eb** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:20 pm

pigeon-holing you? i'm not trying to "put" you anywhere. i'm just trying to make sure both sides are respresented correctly and fairly. (i'm sure that comment will draw some analogy to fox news.) i'm just tired of hearing the extremes of both sides (don't read that as me saying you're an extreme of one side). you listen to the limbaugh's of the world and hear them flying off the handle to the right. listen to the.. whoever's and hear them going in the exact opposite direction. it's perfectly fine to be extreme left or right so long as it's open: open to other view points and open to new interpretations and considerations. i know you're left. that's why i'm challenging your take on the debate. i'm trying to make sure you were still open to hear what he had to say without imposing a personal bias and shutting him out before you considered his case. that's equality. just because he's not a different race, religion, or sex doesn't mean we don't discriminate against him and his views. and maybe that's why you're disenchanted: because the political parties have become more obsessed with winning/appearing right rather than actually being right. the result is political rhetoric. from both sides.

here's something that literally just popped into my head: shouldn't we, as a people, be far more critical of ourselves, as opposed to being critical of the government/canidates, if this american government is of the people, by the people, and for the people? i don't know how valid that is but just an interesting thought.

not straight? i thought you and sandy had only a homo-plutonic loving relationship..?

Post by **Paul3eb** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:43 pm

if your neighbor is building a big meth lab, isn't it in your interest to spend your money to shut it down? (please, i'm not trying to make any analogies to iraq) if that thing blows up, don't you lose? if your kid is in the front yard and stumbles on a bag of cyrstal meth, isn't that your problem? we live in a community, in that you're correct. and like a community, we all have a responsibility to each other and to ourselves. "it takes a village to raise a child" "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" -the preamble

the world is radically different from a hundred years ago. it truly is a global community now. it's something of a paradigm shift and it's going to take generations to get used to. we can't isolate ourselves, nor can we impose ourselves. and by the way, you probably couldn't have posted without the community network that brought your computer to your desk: parts and labor from china, silicon from the us, norway, russia, brazil, canada, plastics from oil from south america and the middle east..

i think i could deal without it all just so long as they kept the coffee coming

Post by **Uncle Big Green** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 3:50 pm

you're taking what I said out of context. as I've mentioned numerous times, the only legitimate function of a govt. is to protect your right to your life. if it goes beyond that, then it is an agressor. now it is doing a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul, therefore (enabled by idiot voters) it is pissing on Peter's rights/property.

your other comments are going off on a tangent, but to add to that, I shouldn't be forced to raise my neighbor's child, nor should I force my neighbor to raise the child as I see fit.

Post by **Paul3eb** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:11 pm

the child that i'm talking about is yours. but that's beside the point

the function of government is not to protect your right to life. the function of government is to secure liberty, life and the pursuit of happiness follow.

taxing peter to pay paul is an issue of welfare, which is off topic. it's something i can't argue for right now, not with respect to the duties of government. i do, however, have personal moral convictions for it: again, off topic.

i have a feeling you don't appreciate frost's condescing tone in his "mending wall"

if you want property rights, you want liberty. if you want liberty, you want society. if you have society, you have rules and laws that need enforced. it takes money to do that. to have the right to climb in a gym, you pay a fee so they can buy holds, property, labor. to have the right to live in society with secure liberty, you pay taxes to ensure that. if you have a problem with welfare, start a different post. you could, afterall, make a decent case against it. morally, though, i feel otherwise.

Post by **Uncle Big Green** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:46 pm

Paul, you don't quite have a grasp of what 'rights' are. you certainly don't have a 'right' to climb in a gym. you only have one right - the right to your life from which all of your other 'rights' are derivative. somehow, you went from point A to point C in your last post - skipping B. anyway, I'm sure that you're at work, too. I'll address this later when I have time.

Post by **charlie** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:06 pm

Was wondering how long it would take UBG to get into this. It's amazing how the distinction between how things "should" be and how things will be is missed in all these conversations. Living in an ideal world would be great, but unrealistic.

Cheney's a smart dude, it just sucks he's a neocon and the neocon's are ruling right now. Man I hate the 2 party system, fucking tarded is right.

Post by **Wes** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:39 pm

Apathy is key for dealing with stuff like this. Just don't care, and you don't have to worry.

So, anyone know what the tech jobs are like in NZ these days?

Wes

Post by **Crankmas** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:46 pm

amen brother, the two party system blows the only thing worse was Ky with the one party system, its coming out now with the govt. teachers insurance issue, 10% of the state wants 100% of the state to give them something the other 90% don't have, they complain that it is so much better in states around us, guess what, no gates at the borders of Ky and any surrounding states, don't dig it hit the fucking road