dhoyne wrote:
It's all about anchoring yourself to the ground.
That is quite possabily the worst thing you can do while climbing steep routes. Sure you might not get lifted off the ground, but you will break the leaders' ankles. I would never, ever let someone anchor in on a single pitch lead.
I never use a gri-gri, never really saw an advantage over the tried and true ATC (and Reverso). I have never had a problem with rope slippage catching heavier people, even on lead.
I was anchored - it was when I was lowering him.
People don't get much bigger than you, Jolly Green Giant.
Recently returning from OR in Salt Lake City I sat through an interesting meeting with the Climbing Gym Association, where the president of Petzl America was present. He specifically stated that a GriGri is an expert device and should only be used by those that are expert in the field of rock climbing.
An attorny for the Outdoor Industry gave an intersting fact that in law suits revolving around belay devices the GriGri is number one by a large margin. Insurance companies are starting to take notice of this and looking hard at facilites and programs that use these devices.
I have seen individuals hold open the GriGri when a climber falls, inadvertanly. I was shocked at how easy it was for them to keep the device open. This, in my experience, appears to happen most often when the leader falls while trying to make a clip. What stopped the climber from hitting the ground was the belayer putting their hands up when they saw a body sailing toward them. It was obvious that the GriGri worked, the human failed. It is a mechanical device, but a rather simple one. It can get dirty and clog up. But in my experience it has always been that the human did not do something that the manufacturer said should be done. Rope too small, paying out slack incorrectly, standing to far away from the base of the climb or just screwing around.
Things happen, and while climbing things can happen FAST. I think we would all agree that as the leader you want to know that your belayer IS a professional and highly skilled. Also that they are extremely well versed in the device that they are using. Many times I have seen someone at the Red giving a new belayer a "quick" lesson on using the GriGri. They have put all their trust in the device and have paid no attention to the person. It's like letting your five year old drive you to work in the morning!
Gyms can be both good and bad places, but they should be THE place to learn how to use the tools. It is our responsibility to the sport and to our clients that they know what they are capable of and how to improve. That should be the primary reason for our existence.
Having said all that, I'm glad to hear that the injuries were not worse. I also hope that the belayer has some close friends that will help. Not all injuries are can be fixed with a cast.
I was once belaying SCIN on Stunning the Hog, feeding him out slack with a GriGri, when he fell. I was holding the device open as I pulled out rope and when he fell the rope whizzed out of the device real fast before I released it. He took a startling long fall. From that experience I learned that it IS easy to hold a GriGri open during a fall if the fall takes place while you are already holding it open.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
The Petzl statements about the gri-gri being an "expert" device are real interesting. Whatever your device or technique, you need practice to become an good belayer. I know I said this before in some other thread somewhere, but when I learned to belay at Outward Bound, they had a belay tower where the dropped a railroad wheel about 10'-15' for the belayer to catch. In doing a little research on this I found that the military uses a belay tower for training. Maybee a practice belay set-up or tower would be a good thing to see at climbing gyms?
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Wes wrote:There is no way in hell that you can break a rope while climbing single pitch routes, unless it runs over an edge. The whole impact force thing with the gri-gri is way over rated.
I think most of the "impact force thing" is due to the force on placed gear
I learned that it IS easy to hold a GriGri open during a fall if the fall takes place while you are already holding it open.
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I'm glad you mentioned this. I wouldn't have thought it. I'm going to start being very careful about grabbing the grigri to feed rope for a clip. Maybe I can avoid it altogether.
hold the cam open with your weakest little finger, the pinky, and you'll be less likely to hold the cam open in a fall. At the same keeping the rope between your thumb and the base of you first finger (index) and you'll be ready to grab the break end of the rope as soon as you,re done feeding out rope or if there is a fall while feeding rope.
