Ground fall at Torrent, Sunday Sept 5

Post by **Artsay** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:07 am

I use a GriGri quite often and am not concerned in the least if my "brake hand" comes off the rope. In fact, I only use it when I know there's a good chance the climber is going to fall. I sometimes catch 20 falls a weekend and have never had a problem and I've been climbing over 10 years. I'm with rhunt...if used correctly a GriGri won't fail. I think more problems come from when someone tries to use one without letting go of their brake hand to pull out rope.

I use an ATC most of the time simply because I don't like the way a GriGri kinks my rope. I never have a problem learning poor habits from a GriGri either. To me it's like eating with chopsticks or a fork; I just use each the way they're suppose to be used.

Post by **512OW** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:13 am

I use an ATC exclusively. I've only used GriGris when working a project, aiding, or soloing.

I just don't like em. The little drawing scares me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:34 am

Rhino showed me that the little drawing of the hand goes to the climber, since they use their hands to pull themselves up the rock. I think I'm ready to chuck my stitch plate and start using the grigri now.

Post by **mootsmadness** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:44 am

I also took a 35 foot whipper while leading Beware the Bear at Muir last weekend. My belayer was feeding me rope for the clip at the anchors when a hold broke just as I was extended for the clip and down I came. I am not a small fella (220#) and my belayer, and experienced and attentive climber who is much smaller than me, got a lot of rope burn on his hand as the rope went zipping through his ATC/XP (using the serrated side) and it took quite an effort on his part to stop me in time. I thank him for surviving his pain so I would not have any of my own.

My question to the forum is "what is the best way to belay a climber who is much heavier than the belayer?" Some suggestions are a GriGri, an ATC with two biners, and a figure 8.

I have heard many things about the GriGri. I am not asking about the misuse modes, these are well known. What I am curious about with the GriGri is the impact loading due to heavier climbers. One train of thinking is that the GriGri is not good for heavier climbers because the non dynamic mechanism creates a high impact load. One test shows that the loads with a 185# climber can quickly come close to the breaking force of a rope, and in the Red my real concern is for the sandstone itself. Another person says that the GriGri will begin to slip at 4-5 KN and shock loads are dampened.

An ideal solution is an ATC with a dynamic belay and with my normal 200+ pound gorrilla of a climbing partner this works well, however, when my belayer is 140 they need to be anchored well which limits dynamic capabilities, and hand strength is an issue.

Thoughts/Comments?? Interested in what you have to say..

Post by **Wes** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:49 am

There is no way in hell that you can break a rope while climbing single pitch routes, unless it runs over an edge. The whole impact force thing with the gri-gri is way over rated.

The only real thing that I worry about (as I outweight most of my belayers, and take big falls for fun) is slamming them into the rock and/or first bolt. So, if the first bolt is low, and the fall big, I will sometimes just clip the 2nd bolt.

Wes

mootsmadness wrote:I also took a 35 foot whipper while leading Beware the Bear at Muir last weekend. My belayer was feeding me rope for the clip at the anchors when a hold broke just as I was extended for the clip and down I came. I am not a small fella (220#) and my belayer, and experienced and attentive climber who is much smaller than me, got a lot of rope burn on his hand as the rope went zipping through his ATC/XP (using the serrated side) and it took quite an effort on his part to stop me in time. I thank him for surviving his pain so I would not have any of my own.

My question to the forum is "what is the best way to belay a climber who is much heavier than the belayer?" Some suggestions are a GriGri, an ATC with two biners, and a figure 8.

I have heard many things about the GriGri. I am not asking about the misuse modes, these are well known. What I am curious about with the GriGri is the impact loading due to heavier climbers. One train of thinking is that the GriGri is not good for heavier climbers because the non dynamic mechanism creates a high impact load. One test shows that the loads with a 185# climber can quickly come close to the breaking force of a rope, and in the Red my real concern is for the sandstone itself. Another person says that the GriGri will begin to slip at 4-5 KN and shock loads are dampened.

An ideal solution is an ATC with a dynamic belay and with my normal 200+ pound gorrilla of a climbing partner this works well, however, when my belayer is 140 they need to be anchored well which limits dynamic capabilities, and hand strength is an issue.

Thoughts/Comments?? Interested in what you have to say..

Post by **512OW** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:38 am

Doesnt' a smaller belayer and larger climber automatically create a dynamic belay? Why anchor them? Who cares if they end up at the first bolt??? Or second, for that matter? If they jump with the fall, instead of letting rope run thru their hands, there won't be rope burn. I weigh about 150.....I used to climb with a guy close to 300 who for some reason was fearless about falling....

never once got rope burn...

I did have a belayer sit on the rope when I fell....similiar to an anchored situation....it busted my ankle when I slammed into the rock.

Post by **J-Rock** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:43 am

If I'm belaying someone who outweighs me then I definitely prefer to use a gri-gri. It will put my mind and body at ease knowing that I can safely catch the biggest of falls without significant rope slippage (I've also used the gri-gri with wet ropes and they work fine). Actually my favorite way to bolt routes (and set routes in the gym) is to belay myself using a gri-gri. It is simple and safe (I usually tie a knot somewhere lower on the rope so that I won't hit the ground if I were to accidentally release the break).

I've yet to hear off a rope breaking (other than an edge fall). Also, on new rock (especially plates) it is important to pull down on the holds (not out). Choose the clip holds very carefully being sure to use the best one and avoiding all of the others. For larger climbers it will be important to disperse as much weight to the feet as possible and find the ideal stance. Never clip from a hold that appears that it could break. Find another one above or below the anchors. Sometimes it might be necessary to clip from an undercling or a good sidepull instead and use a back step or drop knee to focus the weight onto your feet and off of the sketchy handholds.

Post by **andy_lemon** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:37 am

512OW wrote:I weigh about 150.....I used to climb with a guy close to 300 who for some reason was fearless about falling....

Dude, quit telling people how much I weigh...

Post by **Meadows** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:10 pm

mootsmadness wrote:

I have heard many things about the GriGri. I am not asking about the misuse modes, these are well known. What I am curious about with the GriGri is the impact loading due to heavier climbers. An ideal solution is an ATC with a dynamic belay and with my normal 200+ pound gorrilla of a climbing partner this works well, however, when my belayer is 140 they need to be anchored well which limits dynamic capabilities, and hand strength is an issue.

Thoughts/Comments?? Interested in what you have to say..

Yeah, I'll never belay you with a gri gri again, and that was just on TR!! My then 120lb body was no match for you!!

Post by **dhoyne** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:05 pm

Meadows wrote:
mootsmadness wrote:

I have heard many things about the GriGri. I am not asking about the misuse modes, these are well known. What I am curious about with the GriGri is the impact loading due to heavier climbers. An ideal solution is an ATC with a dynamic belay and with my normal 200+ pound gorrilla of a climbing partner this works well, however, when my belayer is 140 they need to be anchored well which limits dynamic capabilities, and hand strength is an issue.

Thoughts/Comments?? Interested in what you have to say..

Yeah, I'll never belay you with a gri gri again, and that was just on TR!! My then 120lb body was no match for you!!

It's all about anchoring yourself to the ground.

I never use a gri-gri, never really saw an advantage over the tried and true ATC (and Reverso). I have never had a problem with rope slippage catching heavier people, even on lead.