fahrenheit 9/11
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pianomahnn
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:52 am
The system doesn't have a hard time; it's the morons at the voting booth that do.MiaRock wrote:By voting third party you are supporting Bush whether you align with his politics or not. I realize there is more than Coke or Pepsi out there (to put it in UBG terms) however our political system has a hard time supporting a third party especially in a presidential election.
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pianomahnn
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 1:52 am
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andy_lemon
- Posts: 1566
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:22 am
Sorry, but your vote is your one opportunity to influence the outcome of that particular election. In and of itself, that's all it is. You can do things like say "I know that my vote for a fringe candidate will give the election to the candidate whose values are radically opposed to my own and whose actions will result in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, but I am using my vote to shift the overall political climate by empowering this fringe party in future election cycles." But that isn't what you are saying.pianomahnn wrote:You make me sick. I want to vomit all over you and that crap you just said.MiaRock wrote:you can sleep at night knowing that your vote is basically wasted by voting L...so why even bother going to the polls?
A vote should be for the person who bests represents the voter's ideologies. Whether that person will get 50,000,000 votes or 50,000 should not matter. You want to know about a wasted vote? LESSER OF TWO EVILS. That is a wasted vote.
It is your disgusting perception of what voting is that has populated the minds of 95% of this country, and is the reason why we have politicians shitting on the United States Constitution daily.
I hate what your kind has done to my Country.
There are all sorts of interesting electoral systems that encourage really multi-party systems. For the recent European Parliament elections, they used a system where you cast 1st, 2nd and 3rd ranked votes. If your first choice candidate doesn't get enough votes to win the seat, then your 2nd choice gets the vote and so on. Then, of course, the EU Parliament is some sort of parliamentary system where many small parties can team up to form a majority government.
But that isn't the system in place in the US. We have two major parties who have 'locked up' the system, and for the time being, we're stuck with it. What we need to do is to shift both the political atmosphere of the nation as a whole and the Democratic party further to 'the left'. Splintering off with Nader isn't going to do that. The racist, Christian-supremacist, Imperialist, Pro-Corporate ultra-Right in America has succeeded in shifting the political discourse far to the right and taken the Republican party with it. Thus, we have Bush II. You'll note that candidates like Pat Buchanan (who fits most of the isms above) didn't really succeed in splintering off on the right. They kept him in check, and the Republican party is stronger for it.
In the end, only grown-ups are given the vote in the US, and you need to act and think like a grown-up, like it or not. The person you should be barfing on is Ralph himself. Amazingly, Ralph has wised up and he is going around saying (and this is almost a direct quote), "Support me in the campaign in order to make the Democrats sweat, then vote for Kerry!"
Bacon is meat candy.
Thankfully, P, as long as you are voting in Illinois, your vote for Nader won't harm Kerry (and by extension, the world). Kerry will almost certainly win Illinois, and because we are an 'all or nothing' state for electoral college votes, your vote for Nader won't really matter.
But I do hope that you vote for Obama - he's an amazing person to be sullying himself by getting into politics. I'm pretty proud having Durbin representing us, and Obama will probably make me even more proud. Now if we could just deal with schmucks like Hastert in the House....
But I do hope that you vote for Obama - he's an amazing person to be sullying himself by getting into politics. I'm pretty proud having Durbin representing us, and Obama will probably make me even more proud. Now if we could just deal with schmucks like Hastert in the House....
Bacon is meat candy.
Just came back from the film.
Wow.
I cannot believe what passes a a "documentary". While I thought it was definitely entertaining, I was distressed at how many new "facts" were nothing but already disproven accusations.
The main allegation about the Saudi family and Laden relatives was proven false by Richard Clark himself, who testified that it was HE that authorized their departures, AND it happened AFTER the skies were reopened to ALL.
How do you Americans justify such a blatant disregard for the truth? I think Moore has some points, but fabricating information, and a blatant ad hominem attack is poor form and should be discouraged in favor of legitimate discourse and action.
For shame to those too undereducated to realize the man is playing fast and loose with the facts and who will then allow this type of sensationalized rhetoric to shape their choices politically.
There was some funny stuff for sure, but the overall tenure of the film was rather hostile and vile, and it seems clear to those in the know (leftists pundits are already distancing themselves on Sunday blather-fests) that the type of rhetoric used in the film is more divisive than anything we have seen from either side (left or right) previously.
I feel sorry for Moore that he needs to stoop to such low levels in order to make his points, AND more importantly, I wholly question the use of such a medium to deliver such a message, to such a blatantly undereducated and wanting mass such as the American movie going public.
Your entire system of entertainment and news have blurred their lines beyond comprehension. So much so, that the real truth has narry a chance of surviving the maelstrom of negativity most United States residents seem to feed off of like so much poisoned teat milk.
Good luck.
Wow.
I cannot believe what passes a a "documentary". While I thought it was definitely entertaining, I was distressed at how many new "facts" were nothing but already disproven accusations.
The main allegation about the Saudi family and Laden relatives was proven false by Richard Clark himself, who testified that it was HE that authorized their departures, AND it happened AFTER the skies were reopened to ALL.
How do you Americans justify such a blatant disregard for the truth? I think Moore has some points, but fabricating information, and a blatant ad hominem attack is poor form and should be discouraged in favor of legitimate discourse and action.
For shame to those too undereducated to realize the man is playing fast and loose with the facts and who will then allow this type of sensationalized rhetoric to shape their choices politically.
There was some funny stuff for sure, but the overall tenure of the film was rather hostile and vile, and it seems clear to those in the know (leftists pundits are already distancing themselves on Sunday blather-fests) that the type of rhetoric used in the film is more divisive than anything we have seen from either side (left or right) previously.
I feel sorry for Moore that he needs to stoop to such low levels in order to make his points, AND more importantly, I wholly question the use of such a medium to deliver such a message, to such a blatantly undereducated and wanting mass such as the American movie going public.
Your entire system of entertainment and news have blurred their lines beyond comprehension. So much so, that the real truth has narry a chance of surviving the maelstrom of negativity most United States residents seem to feed off of like so much poisoned teat milk.
Good luck.