Sandy is a BITCH
Sandy is a bitch AND she should keep it up!
The RRGCC is messed up AND I support them!
(Yeah, yeah, wave a flip-flop in my face, life is full of contraditions)
I'm having a hard time imagining a version of the story from Shannon or Vic that would make nearly as much sense as Sandy's. It also makes sense that old-schoolers and locals wouldn't understand just how important Migel and his place are to beginner and 'outsider' climbers. Any climber's organization would have a much harder time of things without a central clmber's 'hub' like Miguel's, and Miguel's wouldn't be as well off without a climber's organization helping climbing to continue to grow in the region. Neither one depends on the other for it's existance, but either one would be worse off without the other. (If for no other reason, the Coalition should be respectful of Miguel becuase so many members like Miguel and his family so much.)
In fact, Sandy's version fits perfectly with a bunch of my views of the shortcommings of the Coalition. (serious PR/Communications problems, difficulty bringing new people in to help) Not to knock Vic's fluency, but I can't imagine that even if I lived in France for 20 years, that I would be able to get yelled at by a pissed off French-speaking woman and not come away from it with some misunderstandings about what it was that she was trying to get into my head. This all makes a great deal of sense as a misunderstanding.
That said, the Coalition is doing great things (like buying a shit load of great climbing and fighting to keep it open in court!) They are improving at the communication issues, and I expect them to get better at it. At the same time they need to improve in engaging 'outsiders' in the Coalition's activities, both for minor volunteer activities and for participation at high levels in the organization. This is very difficult, but I believe that they can do it. The Forest Service plan is out, and it has important improvements that could only have been made by an organized group of climbers (e.g. the Coalition)
I'm going to keep supporting the Coalition AND trying to help it improve.
I gladly let Sandy belay me (even in the dark!) AND I'm going to continue living in fear of her ominous, bitch-fueled power!
The RRGCC is messed up AND I support them!
(Yeah, yeah, wave a flip-flop in my face, life is full of contraditions)
I'm having a hard time imagining a version of the story from Shannon or Vic that would make nearly as much sense as Sandy's. It also makes sense that old-schoolers and locals wouldn't understand just how important Migel and his place are to beginner and 'outsider' climbers. Any climber's organization would have a much harder time of things without a central clmber's 'hub' like Miguel's, and Miguel's wouldn't be as well off without a climber's organization helping climbing to continue to grow in the region. Neither one depends on the other for it's existance, but either one would be worse off without the other. (If for no other reason, the Coalition should be respectful of Miguel becuase so many members like Miguel and his family so much.)
In fact, Sandy's version fits perfectly with a bunch of my views of the shortcommings of the Coalition. (serious PR/Communications problems, difficulty bringing new people in to help) Not to knock Vic's fluency, but I can't imagine that even if I lived in France for 20 years, that I would be able to get yelled at by a pissed off French-speaking woman and not come away from it with some misunderstandings about what it was that she was trying to get into my head. This all makes a great deal of sense as a misunderstanding.
That said, the Coalition is doing great things (like buying a shit load of great climbing and fighting to keep it open in court!) They are improving at the communication issues, and I expect them to get better at it. At the same time they need to improve in engaging 'outsiders' in the Coalition's activities, both for minor volunteer activities and for participation at high levels in the organization. This is very difficult, but I believe that they can do it. The Forest Service plan is out, and it has important improvements that could only have been made by an organized group of climbers (e.g. the Coalition)
I'm going to keep supporting the Coalition AND trying to help it improve.
I gladly let Sandy belay me (even in the dark!) AND I'm going to continue living in fear of her ominous, bitch-fueled power!
Bacon is meat candy.
wow -
as far as helping the rrgcc I think it is very very possible to keep a safe distance and still contribute in large ways. What was accomplished at Solar Collector last weekend was made possible by a good-sized group of people, of which only three were card-carrying members of the coalition.
I am not a member for reasons completely removed from anything every mentioned on this board...but I will lend a hand whenever I can, just because I use these areas and I enjoy manual labor.
If asked for anything other than money, I would say 'yes' just because I am incredibly poor and supporting Joe's crack habit has stretched my budget even thinner.
I plan on living in the gorge area soon, making it my home and a place of business so of course, I want to help the coalition improve the area for climbers in the years to come...
Sandy, it's too bad that this got brought up again, but I have always wondered about Miguel's non-role in climbing community. And maybe you didn't want to talk about it again, but I think it brings valid points to the discussion table...not all things are better left unsaid.
And to toss in another cliche...no good deed goes unpunished....
You coming to see me this weekend? We're thinking about starting the Kentucky Klimber's Koalition....you in. (that's probably way wrong, but damn it makes me laugh....uniforms: one white tube sock for each guy...mmm haven't come up with a female version yet, let me know if you have any ideas.....)
as far as helping the rrgcc I think it is very very possible to keep a safe distance and still contribute in large ways. What was accomplished at Solar Collector last weekend was made possible by a good-sized group of people, of which only three were card-carrying members of the coalition.
I am not a member for reasons completely removed from anything every mentioned on this board...but I will lend a hand whenever I can, just because I use these areas and I enjoy manual labor.
If asked for anything other than money, I would say 'yes' just because I am incredibly poor and supporting Joe's crack habit has stretched my budget even thinner.
I plan on living in the gorge area soon, making it my home and a place of business so of course, I want to help the coalition improve the area for climbers in the years to come...
Sandy, it's too bad that this got brought up again, but I have always wondered about Miguel's non-role in climbing community. And maybe you didn't want to talk about it again, but I think it brings valid points to the discussion table...not all things are better left unsaid.
And to toss in another cliche...no good deed goes unpunished....
You coming to see me this weekend? We're thinking about starting the Kentucky Klimber's Koalition....you in. (that's probably way wrong, but damn it makes me laugh....uniforms: one white tube sock for each guy...mmm haven't come up with a female version yet, let me know if you have any ideas.....)
"I enjoyed a Guinness after I got back home from Palm Sunday Mass." - Captain Static
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
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young'n climber
- Posts: 1257
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:31 pm
Well put Tomdarch. That whole situation sucked. BTW, from what I know most of the "old school" climbers adore Miguel and are very aware of his influence.
Rhunt put it well too. Organizations screw up because they are run by people. It is entirely possible to support the purpose regardless of whether you support the methods employed by those who are attempting to acheive it.
Sandy, I just hope you feel better letting it out. I know that this has been hard on you. Love you lady!
Rhunt put it well too. Organizations screw up because they are run by people. It is entirely possible to support the purpose regardless of whether you support the methods employed by those who are attempting to acheive it.
Sandy, I just hope you feel better letting it out. I know that this has been hard on you. Love you lady!
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast
Brian, you should apologize.....Sandy you should graciously accept... Then we can all retire to the bedroom for some four-way action.....Take out all that agression and anger on each other....so what do you say?
"I enjoyed a Guinness after I got back home from Palm Sunday Mass." - Captain Static
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
Sandy,
That was a great story. I remember sensing the ripples of this last year on this board and also around Miguel's.
Someone once told me(actually they told me this a lot) ....whoa I forgot what they told me something about NO Big Deals...
I am still kind of lost with the open invitation to kiss Sandy's lily white ass and my mistaken assumption that Sandy was married.
Ah well, I feel like the stepson in a dysfunctional family. I don't know what the hell is going on most of the time but it sure is exciting!
That was a great story. I remember sensing the ripples of this last year on this board and also around Miguel's.
Someone once told me(actually they told me this a lot) ....whoa I forgot what they told me something about NO Big Deals...
I am still kind of lost with the open invitation to kiss Sandy's lily white ass and my mistaken assumption that Sandy was married.
Ah well, I feel like the stepson in a dysfunctional family. I don't know what the hell is going on most of the time but it sure is exciting!
I try to be a good man but all that comes
of trying is I feel more guilty.
Ikkyu
of trying is I feel more guilty.
Ikkyu
wow
sandy you really are a bitch, I mean prescribing popcorn to young people and such
do you know how unhealthy that stuff can be?
I'm way too much of an outsider to even begin to add to this dramafest, but I will say this-- I first learned about the CC by reading a flier that was at the kiosk at Miguel's.
together we win, divided we fall
sandy you really are a bitch, I mean prescribing popcorn to young people and such
do you know how unhealthy that stuff can be?
I'm way too much of an outsider to even begin to add to this dramafest, but I will say this-- I first learned about the CC by reading a flier that was at the kiosk at Miguel's.
together we win, divided we fall
"Good things take time, impossible things take a little longer"
Percy Gerutty
Percy Gerutty
I say we fire up Joes chain saw and get rid of that kiosk. All its used for is tieing up dogs.We could use the parking spot. Put a picnic table there for us smokers.Hell yea man I'm on a roll now.Then we could use the saw and make a couple more good sized windows and get some ventilation in miguels.Let out some spray dog crap.Then we pin a medal on Migeul for Meritoruos service in the line of fire. heck yea. We just have a big cerimony and everything.WITH BEER!
Disclaimer: in reality ,I agree with Tomdarch
Disclaimer: in reality ,I agree with Tomdarch
Last edited by ynot on Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone should have a plan for the zombie apocolipse" Courtney