Bolts at Long Wall
Chill out tsparks. Lurky means well, but his medication is a bit off kilter. He's really preaching to everyone about the issue, not just you. And your generosity and thoughtfulness about the issue is certainly way above most climbers. This is a CAC issue. I'm sure more support for a database, training of volunteers, equipment, etc. is what they need. Perhaps instead of just a Trail Day this year the RRGCC can have an Anchor Maintenance Day to bring more routes up to par and increase awareness among climbers of the need.
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
tsparks,
you have stumbled into ongoing point of concern and contention among folks in the Red who maintain and up keep the area (the routes, trails, etc).
You are quite right and all too accurate in your observation that "All of us take advantage of others generosity".
In a community, it is expected that everyone do their share, not just "take advantage of others generosity". Give back roughly in the same proportion as having taken.
As I have said and John has said, your offer is above what most folks would offer. It is appreciated. Frankly, if everyone extended your offer, every route in the Red could be equiped with stainless glue ins and the problem would be solved for our lifetime.
I am indeed using this as a proselytizing moment to make the point that when folks see a problem, fix it. Don't sag onto the community safety net provided by a handful expecting it to get done.
You sound as if you are possibly new to the area and haven't climbed here that much. You have already made more of an overture than locals who climb in the Red week in and out, for years.
Again, thanks.
Lets get together and fix the route. I will show you how. It is easy.
Hugh
you have stumbled into ongoing point of concern and contention among folks in the Red who maintain and up keep the area (the routes, trails, etc).
You are quite right and all too accurate in your observation that "All of us take advantage of others generosity".
In a community, it is expected that everyone do their share, not just "take advantage of others generosity". Give back roughly in the same proportion as having taken.
As I have said and John has said, your offer is above what most folks would offer. It is appreciated. Frankly, if everyone extended your offer, every route in the Red could be equiped with stainless glue ins and the problem would be solved for our lifetime.
I am indeed using this as a proselytizing moment to make the point that when folks see a problem, fix it. Don't sag onto the community safety net provided by a handful expecting it to get done.
You sound as if you are possibly new to the area and haven't climbed here that much. You have already made more of an overture than locals who climb in the Red week in and out, for years.
Again, thanks.
Lets get together and fix the route. I will show you how. It is easy.
Hugh
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
Well, I haven't been climbing in the Red as long as you, but I have climbed almost every weekend for the last 3+ years, and I live less than an hour from the Gorge, so I would consider myself very local.You sound as if you are possibly new to the area and haven't climbed here that much. You have already made more of an overture than locals who climb in the Red week in and out, for years.
$DO||!$DO; try
try is not a command
try is not a command
experience needed to drill a HOLE
very little to NONE. Granted, drilling a route from scratch requires experience to visualize a line and get the bolts in the right place. Rebolting a route, or repairing an anchor, require virtually no experience. In terms of mechanical abiltity required to drill a hole and place a bolt--on a scale from 1-10 (10 being highest), personally I'd say it would be around a 1. So why not a "novice" climber? Hell, a person who isn't even a climber can replace a bolt. It certainly isn't rocket science.
What is needed to replace bolts, as Hugh has pointed out, is time and a financial investment. And INITIATIVE. Obviously, few people are willing to do this, and it is certainly a problem. As Hugh mentions, there is no park service or bolt fairy, and the vast majority of people get a free ride due to someone elses work. I don't believe people realize the cost that goes into route development and maintenance. Say about $2.50 per bolt and hanger (low-end), and then the cost of the anchor, and don't forget $600+ for the drill, and then the time.
T-sparks--I don't think Hugh intended to attack you. Instead, I think he is trying to raise awareness to a topic that involves the masses and their herd mentality. Thereby, why not YOU? THAT is Hugh's point. Are you serious about climbing? If yes, then there is no <good> reason or excuse why you can't take the initiative and do the work. And being poor doesn't work. Same applies to everyone else.
What is needed to replace bolts, as Hugh has pointed out, is time and a financial investment. And INITIATIVE. Obviously, few people are willing to do this, and it is certainly a problem. As Hugh mentions, there is no park service or bolt fairy, and the vast majority of people get a free ride due to someone elses work. I don't believe people realize the cost that goes into route development and maintenance. Say about $2.50 per bolt and hanger (low-end), and then the cost of the anchor, and don't forget $600+ for the drill, and then the time.
T-sparks--I don't think Hugh intended to attack you. Instead, I think he is trying to raise awareness to a topic that involves the masses and their herd mentality. Thereby, why not YOU? THAT is Hugh's point. Are you serious about climbing? If yes, then there is no <good> reason or excuse why you can't take the initiative and do the work. And being poor doesn't work. Same applies to everyone else.
Bolts in the Red
Lurkist and others on this thread.
Starting a donation area of this website would be a great idea.
I live about 7 hours from the Red and don't have the access/time that others have. However, I'd be happy to donate $300.00 to rebolting of routes. Honesty amoung climbers is like the honesty amoung skydivers, so I would trust my money would be well spent.
Contact me at blynch8198@aol.com to discuss.
Starting a donation area of this website would be a great idea.
I live about 7 hours from the Red and don't have the access/time that others have. However, I'd be happy to donate $300.00 to rebolting of routes. Honesty amoung climbers is like the honesty amoung skydivers, so I would trust my money would be well spent.
Contact me at blynch8198@aol.com to discuss.
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
Sky,
Far out! $300 would go along way to rebolting the initial routes in question. I'll chip in a routes worth of bolts and labor to help get it done. I bet it wouldn't take much to get a few other locals to help. Could probably make it a one day effort.
tsparks has already offered input/money.
lets talk.
Hugh
Far out! $300 would go along way to rebolting the initial routes in question. I'll chip in a routes worth of bolts and labor to help get it done. I bet it wouldn't take much to get a few other locals to help. Could probably make it a one day effort.
tsparks has already offered input/money.
lets talk.
Hugh
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
Bolts in the Red
Lurkist,
I'll be in the Red this weekend (Friday AND Sat.).
I was thinking of leaving money at Miguels, unless there is a better way, e-mail me and let me know.
I'll be climbing in The Arena and Oil Crack. Ever try Blankety Blank? I want that climb so bad, but can't get past the third bolt.
I'll be in the Red this weekend (Friday AND Sat.).
I was thinking of leaving money at Miguels, unless there is a better way, e-mail me and let me know.I'll be climbing in The Arena and Oil Crack. Ever try Blankety Blank? I want that climb so bad, but can't get past the third bolt.