Southern Region
Some of you know me and most of you know Joe. We just wanted to put an offer out there...this is a PM I sent to bob....
My name is Stacy Puzo and my fiance is Joe Haynes...we are offering to you a couple services that I think you will be happy to have.
First, we are working to open a hostel just up on the ridge across from Solar Collector. It is maybe a 15 to 20 minute hike from Solar Collector/Dark Side. What we would like to let you know is we would GLADLY provide a couple of meals for volunteers over the weekend, a place to rest after working and so on, given some notice.
ALSO - we want to offer up at the very least, four volunteers. Two of them very skilled laborers and two very willing helpers. We have PLENTY of our own tools and tons of energy towards this project. Joe and another long-time gorge climber say they would be happy to build you a bridge you could drive a tank across! And are very willing to do so. We have chainsaws, shovels and other ground oriented tools...along with just about any carpentry tool you might need all accessible just a ridgetop over from where you are working.
Please let us know if we can be of service. We are down there from Thursday afternoons on. This week you maybe able to catch Joe there on Wednesday.
Thanks in advance and we hope to hear from you soon
Stacy and Joe
(PS: Bob - Hamsco's seen the place, you can ask him about it if you want.)
My name is Stacy Puzo and my fiance is Joe Haynes...we are offering to you a couple services that I think you will be happy to have.
First, we are working to open a hostel just up on the ridge across from Solar Collector. It is maybe a 15 to 20 minute hike from Solar Collector/Dark Side. What we would like to let you know is we would GLADLY provide a couple of meals for volunteers over the weekend, a place to rest after working and so on, given some notice.
ALSO - we want to offer up at the very least, four volunteers. Two of them very skilled laborers and two very willing helpers. We have PLENTY of our own tools and tons of energy towards this project. Joe and another long-time gorge climber say they would be happy to build you a bridge you could drive a tank across! And are very willing to do so. We have chainsaws, shovels and other ground oriented tools...along with just about any carpentry tool you might need all accessible just a ridgetop over from where you are working.
Please let us know if we can be of service. We are down there from Thursday afternoons on. This week you maybe able to catch Joe there on Wednesday.
Thanks in advance and we hope to hear from you soon
Stacy and Joe
(PS: Bob - Hamsco's seen the place, you can ask him about it if you want.)
"I enjoyed a Guinness after I got back home from Palm Sunday Mass." - Captain Static
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
"Listen, you heard what I said. Do you want me to donate or not charlie. Suck it up and procreate." - Andrew
To answer Sandy’s question regarding, “why weren't volunteers solicited to help with the work being done in the SR?”
The decision to “open” the Pendergrass-Murray Recreartional Preserve, when, how, in what order, on what day, has been, and still is, an extremely delicate decision based not upon volunteers and trails, but our lawsuit, our legal strategy, and numerous logistical problems. We have not asked for volunteers because “preparations” have been intentionally been going on quietly behind the scenes while the board of directors have been reviewing the RRGCC’s legal options and strategy. The board has most recently hired an oil and gas expert who was finally able to visit the property last Monday and review the relevant legal documents just this Saturday, April 10 (I spent last week, making the three-hour round trip drive to obtain copies of them at the Beattyville courthouse and then took then to this gentleman’s house this past Saturday morning. The board has received a “briefing” email from me over the weekend and has not made a final decision.)
We have been pursuing a two-track plan; “quietly” (not publicly) preparing to reopen the Preserve to climbing while also working behind the scene to get all our legal “ducks in a row” with a watchful eye towards Charmane, the mediation date, and our lawsuit. Again, we cannot talk about everything that is going on in public. Information is still being gathered, decisions still have to be made, and at the same time a very small group of people have been working (doing small individual tasks, making signs, prepping trails, looking into the “red tape” for stream crossings, gravel, grading, etc.) getting the property ready to be opened as soon as the decision could be made to open it.
But the bottom line is this: There is nothing nefarious going on. There is no conspiracy. No wrongdoing. No exploitation, no “private playgrounds.” No one is trying to take advantage of anyone, or take anyone’s money under false pretentious. As John has said before, as I tried to tell Wes this past week at the crag, the RRGCC does not have a paid staff (Vic has only recently been hired part-time, even though he puts in over 40 hours). This is not like “on demand” TV. There is only a handful of extremely dedicated people who “loosely” (volunteer their time, call one another, share emails, consult, discuss, etc.) work very hard on behalf, and always for the benefit, of the larger climbing group. There is no office, there is no staff, we do the work in our spare time, when we can. Organizing volunteers and trail days takes time and man hours that, frankly, we just don’t have. It takes as much (sometimes more) time to organize a trail day as it does just to go do the work without volunteers. Volunteers are labor-intensive and high maintenance.
Of course, things could be better. Of course, we would love to “communicate” to everyone, all the time, answer everyone’s questions. Even taking the time to write this means several other tasks that desperately need to be done (printing thank-you postcards to renewing members, writing the latest announcement for the rrgcc.org website) are not being done. Mistakes are made, big and small. Phone calls don’t get returned right away, or at all, sometimes. Emails go unanswered. Not every time someone says “I would like to volunteer” is there anything that can be done about it. Mistakes will always be made. There will always fault to be found. But there is huge difference between sincere questions and constructive criticism meant to help and make things better, and questions and comments meant to hurt, stir up trouble, belittle, find fault, degrade, be spiteful, petty, and self-indulgent.
But “we” (anyone who works in the name of the RRGCC) are just human beings trying to do something helpful for others. This is not a fortune 500 company. We are basically just friends, or people who know one another, who love to climb and love the Red. We are not going to be perfect, maybe not even very good at it. But we are trying and we are making progress. We have accomplished in our spare time, with no staff, no salaries, no secretaries, no administrative assistants, no office, no weekly staff meetings, no committees, nothing more than a desire to help, a hell of lot that we can all be proud of. It is not about being a martyr, or trying to be “in charge,” or about having power. As fucked up as we may be, and misguided as we are, or hokey as it may sound, I and the rest of the “RRGCC members” really do just believe in the mission and vision of the organization.
I wish I had more time, for example, to answer the numerous (good) questions posted to this web site, but I don't. So, please know that if I don't post or respond it is because I am off doing something else.
Direct emails to me at: rawkjock@qx.net and phone calls: 859-269-8796 help save me time and are always appreciated.
Thanks
The decision to “open” the Pendergrass-Murray Recreartional Preserve, when, how, in what order, on what day, has been, and still is, an extremely delicate decision based not upon volunteers and trails, but our lawsuit, our legal strategy, and numerous logistical problems. We have not asked for volunteers because “preparations” have been intentionally been going on quietly behind the scenes while the board of directors have been reviewing the RRGCC’s legal options and strategy. The board has most recently hired an oil and gas expert who was finally able to visit the property last Monday and review the relevant legal documents just this Saturday, April 10 (I spent last week, making the three-hour round trip drive to obtain copies of them at the Beattyville courthouse and then took then to this gentleman’s house this past Saturday morning. The board has received a “briefing” email from me over the weekend and has not made a final decision.)
We have been pursuing a two-track plan; “quietly” (not publicly) preparing to reopen the Preserve to climbing while also working behind the scene to get all our legal “ducks in a row” with a watchful eye towards Charmane, the mediation date, and our lawsuit. Again, we cannot talk about everything that is going on in public. Information is still being gathered, decisions still have to be made, and at the same time a very small group of people have been working (doing small individual tasks, making signs, prepping trails, looking into the “red tape” for stream crossings, gravel, grading, etc.) getting the property ready to be opened as soon as the decision could be made to open it.
But the bottom line is this: There is nothing nefarious going on. There is no conspiracy. No wrongdoing. No exploitation, no “private playgrounds.” No one is trying to take advantage of anyone, or take anyone’s money under false pretentious. As John has said before, as I tried to tell Wes this past week at the crag, the RRGCC does not have a paid staff (Vic has only recently been hired part-time, even though he puts in over 40 hours). This is not like “on demand” TV. There is only a handful of extremely dedicated people who “loosely” (volunteer their time, call one another, share emails, consult, discuss, etc.) work very hard on behalf, and always for the benefit, of the larger climbing group. There is no office, there is no staff, we do the work in our spare time, when we can. Organizing volunteers and trail days takes time and man hours that, frankly, we just don’t have. It takes as much (sometimes more) time to organize a trail day as it does just to go do the work without volunteers. Volunteers are labor-intensive and high maintenance.
Of course, things could be better. Of course, we would love to “communicate” to everyone, all the time, answer everyone’s questions. Even taking the time to write this means several other tasks that desperately need to be done (printing thank-you postcards to renewing members, writing the latest announcement for the rrgcc.org website) are not being done. Mistakes are made, big and small. Phone calls don’t get returned right away, or at all, sometimes. Emails go unanswered. Not every time someone says “I would like to volunteer” is there anything that can be done about it. Mistakes will always be made. There will always fault to be found. But there is huge difference between sincere questions and constructive criticism meant to help and make things better, and questions and comments meant to hurt, stir up trouble, belittle, find fault, degrade, be spiteful, petty, and self-indulgent.
But “we” (anyone who works in the name of the RRGCC) are just human beings trying to do something helpful for others. This is not a fortune 500 company. We are basically just friends, or people who know one another, who love to climb and love the Red. We are not going to be perfect, maybe not even very good at it. But we are trying and we are making progress. We have accomplished in our spare time, with no staff, no salaries, no secretaries, no administrative assistants, no office, no weekly staff meetings, no committees, nothing more than a desire to help, a hell of lot that we can all be proud of. It is not about being a martyr, or trying to be “in charge,” or about having power. As fucked up as we may be, and misguided as we are, or hokey as it may sound, I and the rest of the “RRGCC members” really do just believe in the mission and vision of the organization.
I wish I had more time, for example, to answer the numerous (good) questions posted to this web site, but I don't. So, please know that if I don't post or respond it is because I am off doing something else.
Direct emails to me at: rawkjock@qx.net and phone calls: 859-269-8796 help save me time and are always appreciated.
Thanks
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captain static
- Posts: 2438
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:05 pm
I'm a believer.... hokey as it may sound, I and the rest of the “RRGCC members” really do just believe in the mission and vision of the organization.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Thank you John, Bob & Shannon for replying on Terry's behalf. Terry is a significant volunteer and CAC member and his role of "saving and creating routes for the masses are GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Spraqwa, you state that your intention was to open discourse on the matter of RRGCC members abusing the closure and recreating on their personal playground. Nonsense. You were openly attacking Terry, you just ommited his name. Terry was definitely justified by calling you on it since you choose a public forum to attack. As Shannon stated in her reponse, there has been absolutely no abuse of power by either members of the Board or RRGCC member that we know of. Now if there are climbers out there spraying that they have continued to climb on the property, then SHAME ON THEM and they should be called out. Their actions could jeoporidize all the efforts that are being made on their behalf as well as yours. If you were aware of people climbing on the property, why didn't you contact the RRGCC directly to make us aware of it? Wouldn't that be your repsonsibilty if you truely care about the mission of the RRGCC?
Once again the RRGCc can't possible communicate every single action that it is taking on your behalf all the time. We do not have the resources as well as "does it really matter?" We are putting a lot of effort into communicating thru our websites as well as the electonic newsletter. So stay tuned. If you have a question, post it to our forum. I really think that this issue is a dead horse at this point.
HF, are your really concerned about how the BOD are elected or are you still trying to pick a bone with me?
Thanks.
Gretchen Finniff
President, BOD
513/271-1716
bgoutdoors@hotmail.com
Spraqwa, you state that your intention was to open discourse on the matter of RRGCC members abusing the closure and recreating on their personal playground. Nonsense. You were openly attacking Terry, you just ommited his name. Terry was definitely justified by calling you on it since you choose a public forum to attack. As Shannon stated in her reponse, there has been absolutely no abuse of power by either members of the Board or RRGCC member that we know of. Now if there are climbers out there spraying that they have continued to climb on the property, then SHAME ON THEM and they should be called out. Their actions could jeoporidize all the efforts that are being made on their behalf as well as yours. If you were aware of people climbing on the property, why didn't you contact the RRGCC directly to make us aware of it? Wouldn't that be your repsonsibilty if you truely care about the mission of the RRGCC?
Once again the RRGCc can't possible communicate every single action that it is taking on your behalf all the time. We do not have the resources as well as "does it really matter?" We are putting a lot of effort into communicating thru our websites as well as the electonic newsletter. So stay tuned. If you have a question, post it to our forum. I really think that this issue is a dead horse at this point.
HF, are your really concerned about how the BOD are elected or are you still trying to pick a bone with me?
Thanks.
Gretchen Finniff
President, BOD
513/271-1716
bgoutdoors@hotmail.com
Just genuinely disengenuous.
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flaredcrack
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 1:40 pm
This is why I avoid people like these... Gretchen everytime you post on here you sound as if you have taken it for granted that you and the coalition are speaking for all climbers. The coalition doesn't speak for all climbers or make policies. I wish you guys would stopping sounding so authoritarian all the time. I'll climb anywhere I please dammit.
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Guest
Hmmm, nice job Gretchen, if you meant to stir up an already diffused situation.
I can't let this go by, though
Her questions were legitimate and she was only asking what has been on a lot of people's minds. The questions have been answered, the reason for activitity in the SR has been explained, and everything was cleared up. Why did you feel a need to get your jabs in? This reactionary, defensive stance and the closing of ranks is exactly what makes people suspect that the RRGCC has something to hide beyond legally sensitive issues. I'm not saying that I think you do (have something to hide), please don't misunderstand. In fact I have said it before and I'll say it again - I applaud the RRGCC for being as forthcoming with information as they have been in recent months. I'm just saying that your actions/reactions are what raise people's suspicions.
Did it ever occur to anyone that people have questions simply because they care about what is going on? That is exactly the case here.
I can't let this go by, though
You are dead wrong, here. Your accusation is completely off the mark As much as I wanted to stay out of this thread after a certain point, I won't let this go without defending Spragwa. I spoke to her this morning and her feelings were hurt by Terry's accusations. She was rightfully offended. She did not name any names in the beginning because she knew that more than just Terry has been in the SR. She was not attacking anyone.Gretchen wrote:Spraqwa, you state that your intention was to open discourse on the matter of RRGCC members abusing the closure and recreating on their personal playground. Nonsense. You were openly attacking Terry, you just ommited his name.
Her questions were legitimate and she was only asking what has been on a lot of people's minds. The questions have been answered, the reason for activitity in the SR has been explained, and everything was cleared up. Why did you feel a need to get your jabs in? This reactionary, defensive stance and the closing of ranks is exactly what makes people suspect that the RRGCC has something to hide beyond legally sensitive issues. I'm not saying that I think you do (have something to hide), please don't misunderstand. In fact I have said it before and I'll say it again - I applaud the RRGCC for being as forthcoming with information as they have been in recent months. I'm just saying that your actions/reactions are what raise people's suspicions.
Did it ever occur to anyone that people have questions simply because they care about what is going on? That is exactly the case here.
Maybe I am more informed than others, or maybe I just try to see the best in people, but it bothers me when I hear people criticize the RRGCC so much. I hear it all the time at the crag or at miguel's, about all the things the RRGCC does wrong(in their opinion), or how they are up to some master plan of securing their own personal playground. I truelly do believe that from the many conversations I have had with them, and the work I have personnally seen many of them do, that they are whole heartedly working their butts off for EVERYONE, including themselves. I am not against asking questions about what is going on, but have some faith people.
Living the dream
I agree with a lot that you said, Andrew. I think that the RRGCC have done a helluva job for a volunteer organization. Sure, they have had miscommunication problems and other stupid stuff go on but that's what comes with taking on this kind of job with mostly a complete volunteer staff. Shannon is a bad ass motivated worker and Terry has practically built those prime areas on the Murray property with his bare hands.
My two cents: I don't think Spragwa's intentions were malicious at all. In fact, I know they weren't. I think words got misinterpreted and people's emotions got heated. Lesson number one....when you get mad at someone, take 15 minutes and cool down before talking to them. We're all really good people around here and don't intend on hurting one another.
Gretchen - I care for you, girl, but you really need to let other RRGCC members speak for and represent the Coalition. For some reason you come off as very harsh and crass and it only seems to makes things worse.
The RRGCC is doing an amazing job. That's not debatable and all of you who accuse them of stealing and misusing their priveleges or whatever are just straight up being mean. If I were busting my ass like them I would get so hurt and mad by statements like that.
I also think that they have every right to be climbing back there if they want. So fucking what? Like they haven't earned it? I think they should keep the damn Preserve closed for an additional month or two when all is said and done just to enjoy it for themselves before the masses come in.
But hell, what do I know...
I haven't offered to help them at all. Have you?
My two cents: I don't think Spragwa's intentions were malicious at all. In fact, I know they weren't. I think words got misinterpreted and people's emotions got heated. Lesson number one....when you get mad at someone, take 15 minutes and cool down before talking to them. We're all really good people around here and don't intend on hurting one another.
Gretchen - I care for you, girl, but you really need to let other RRGCC members speak for and represent the Coalition. For some reason you come off as very harsh and crass and it only seems to makes things worse.
The RRGCC is doing an amazing job. That's not debatable and all of you who accuse them of stealing and misusing their priveleges or whatever are just straight up being mean. If I were busting my ass like them I would get so hurt and mad by statements like that.
I also think that they have every right to be climbing back there if they want. So fucking what? Like they haven't earned it? I think they should keep the damn Preserve closed for an additional month or two when all is said and done just to enjoy it for themselves before the masses come in.
But hell, what do I know...
I haven't offered to help them at all. Have you?
Last edited by Artsay on Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
Man, thanks for the support Sandy and Mia. To the other posters who care what I think, all I can say is to read my earlier posts. I clearly revealed my motives and purpose. I'm not sorry for posting this. Terry wasn't under attack. He wasn't the only person who I saw coming out of the SR Sunday. The other person is not the only one who has been climbing back there. Anyway, good things have come from this post. There will be more volunteers working back there and hopefully a lot more can be accomplished. With more hands on volunteers, maybe people will feel a stronger connection with the property. I'm sure the volunteers would have been solicited without this post anyway. Hopefully soon all of the character assassination, angry feelings, accusations and self-righteous indignation can be put aside.
Honestly, I've been called a lot worse than immature, selfish, spiteful, petty and self-indulgent. Probably by the posters here who dull their words for the board...LOL I'll still be fine. I'll still volunteer for the coalition and try to raise money when I can. Thanks for all of the work.
Honestly, I've been called a lot worse than immature, selfish, spiteful, petty and self-indulgent. Probably by the posters here who dull their words for the board...LOL I'll still be fine. I'll still volunteer for the coalition and try to raise money when I can. Thanks for all of the work.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast