Terry Kindred gave me permission to use his name so I will. I saw him and another guy in a truck together driving through the SR. They did not have climbing gear and weren't climbing. I apologize to Terry for jumping to any conclusions. My questions regarding his behavior could have been answered by calling him. It was wrong to post without contacting Terry.
That being said, I still would have posted after talking to him for many reasons. First, everyone has stated that members are climbing back there. I wasn't attacking anyone, I was bringing it out on the forum for discussion. Second, if people are working on trails and volunteering why doesn't everyone know. I realize that parking is a problem but hell, ask for 10 people to show up and if they do, put them to work and let them climb a bit.
Finally, Terry called me attacking me personally and saying some really harsh stuff. It was inappropriate and mean-spirited. He wanted to vent and took his opportunity on me. I listened. He said that I posted for the wrong reasons, that I am full of Bullshit which he has known from the first time he met me, that I am an information broker and that I knew this was wrong. Further, he said that I was just trying to start shit and insinuated that I was trying to hurt the Coalition. He also said the everyone deserves a "second chance." After carefully considering my actions I will admit that I am jealous that people are climbing in the SR when I've been DYING to get on my projects but have refrained from poaching out of respect. This was not the only reason that I posted though.
I believe and always have believed that the Coalition can be a true coalition of climbers if given the chance. For this to happen there need to be volunteers. Johnny, I can name 7 good people that have been chased off by the coalition. You know it and I know it. The first one I know of was about 3 years ago. She wanted to put together the first coalition membership list to distribute newsletters...know who that was? I have been and will continue to be vocal about this and not to stir shit. The other way for it to be a true Coalition is to dispense information. Terry mentioned that the Coalition had some super-secret info at one time...BULL. I know at least 5 climbers who know it too.
Finally, I will not be disuaded from posting because someone calls and attacks me. I have looked at my behavior and my motives. No, it wasn't all pure. But it isn't totally selfish either. So I don't want a second chance...in the immortal words of my friend Jim's T-Shirt..."FUCK YOU, I have enough friends."
Southern Region
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Guest
Johnny, I don't have a problem. I have valid questions, just like everyone else. Your points to Mia are good ones, however no one has answered the question I have asked twice now: why weren't volunteers solicited to help with the work being done in the SR?
Spragwa's post also states some legitimate concerns. You and I both know that, while it is hard to attract volunteers, good ones have been chased away. You can also do a search on this forum and you will see at least a few remarks made by people that offered to help and were never contacted - even though they were told their help was needed and would be appreciated. I heard similar comments from people when I was running the gear sale.
Be very clear, though: I am well aware and I think most people recognize the need for sensitive information to remain private among those with a need to know. What is being done in the SR for trail work, parking lots, signage etc, however, did not need to be secret. Sharing this information would have prevented this latest tap dance.
Most of us also recognize how hard you and Shannon are working for the rest of us, and really do appreciate it. Perhaps the defeatist attitude of 'no one will help so we may as well not even bother asking' would pan out to be true, but if you never ask, you will never know. And if you never ask, you have no right to bitch about people sitting on their asses.
Spragwa's post also states some legitimate concerns. You and I both know that, while it is hard to attract volunteers, good ones have been chased away. You can also do a search on this forum and you will see at least a few remarks made by people that offered to help and were never contacted - even though they were told their help was needed and would be appreciated. I heard similar comments from people when I was running the gear sale.
Be very clear, though: I am well aware and I think most people recognize the need for sensitive information to remain private among those with a need to know. What is being done in the SR for trail work, parking lots, signage etc, however, did not need to be secret. Sharing this information would have prevented this latest tap dance.
Most of us also recognize how hard you and Shannon are working for the rest of us, and really do appreciate it. Perhaps the defeatist attitude of 'no one will help so we may as well not even bother asking' would pan out to be true, but if you never ask, you will never know. And if you never ask, you have no right to bitch about people sitting on their asses.
If anyone wants to volunteer please do so, specifics would be of some help, e.g. dates, times, what for, etc.. I spent 4/11 setting signs in Coal Bank hollow for the Dark Side and the Solar Collector along the trail in, I had my climbing gear with me and didn't climb once. Hopefully I will complete a foot bridge to cross the breech in the dam this next weekend, during my stint at work doing night shifts ( 9:30pm til 7:30am). Last tuesday I spent my entire day in harness bolting a new route (an 8) and cleaning it on the new property. Others were there also bolting and cleaning new routes. The intent was to construct a crag that will, in part, justify the push to purchase our own climbing land, (so far 10's, 11's and 12's). Last Monday I spent walking the land with a land manager for oil companies and not climbing, at the end of the day Shannon and I spent time trying to establish the boundries, by deed, of the land we had purchased to establish our legal surface rights and to discuss the rights we might have to cliffs we own but do not have surface access to, e.g. the Oil crack, the In between and the Arena. Again a beautiful day not spent climbing.
I resent the implication that I have been abusing your trust and donations for my own benefit. I would ask if any on this web site have ever donated to, joined, the Access fund or donated to its fund drives? If so have you ever subjected any of its board members to this degree of interogation regarding their motives? If you have issues with the RRGCC you need to address them to the board of directors, not Shannon, as we are the ultimate legal source of her directives. We tell her what to accomplish and are the reason she does what she does.
I resent the implication that I have been abusing your trust and donations for my own benefit. I would ask if any on this web site have ever donated to, joined, the Access fund or donated to its fund drives? If so have you ever subjected any of its board members to this degree of interogation regarding their motives? If you have issues with the RRGCC you need to address them to the board of directors, not Shannon, as we are the ultimate legal source of her directives. We tell her what to accomplish and are the reason she does what she does.
By the way I am:
Robert (Bob) Matheny, M.D.
and can be contacted by:
mathenyboy@aol.com
or by phone at (859)276-2581
or by mail at
158 Suburban Ct.
Lexington, Ky 40503
Robert (Bob) Matheny, M.D.
and can be contacted by:
mathenyboy@aol.com
or by phone at (859)276-2581
or by mail at
158 Suburban Ct.
Lexington, Ky 40503
For clarification, I was not just talking about RRGCC Board members or people in the coalition "heirarchy." I was also interested in hearing from coalition members who were "poaching" routes too. One of my intents in my original post was to generate discourse. I know for a fact that coalition members have climbed back there who are not on the board or in the "heirarchy." I've heard them spraying at cliffs.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast