All jokes apart... we must totally realize that climbing in large numbers at one spot (worst, a large group of people just sitting there, waiting their turn and watching) is just about the worst thing we can do to ourselves.
It creates the largest impact on any area (unless as I have mentioned before, this takes place in Hawaii, and everything grows back in about a week...
The direct result of a bunch of people waiting in line for a climb is:
- trail enlargement and distortion
- plant destruction
- future land slide
I hope that more people will take innitiatives and keep this from happening as much as possible - by spreading out. As much as it may come to a surprise to us all, Roadside - 10 wall - should have no more than 4 people around it - if we want to avoid erosion.
Please do your part and help out.
Crag Attacks
back to my point months ago....as a user group, we should police ourselves....let's make up "rules" because otherwise we just step on our own foot. example, after 10 cars are parked at roadside, you must go somewhere else. after 12 cars are at military/left flank, you must go somewhere else.
no one will accept this, because we all feel entitled to climb where we want, when we want....I am just as guilty. we bitch and moan about groups and too many people, all the while making our way to the crag to INCREASE those numbers.
climbing is the death of climbing I'm afraid....as rhunt says, the future of climbing is indoors and toproping...
no one will accept this, because we all feel entitled to climb where we want, when we want....I am just as guilty. we bitch and moan about groups and too many people, all the while making our way to the crag to INCREASE those numbers.
climbing is the death of climbing I'm afraid....as rhunt says, the future of climbing is indoors and toproping...
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
Hey Pigsteak! You are totally right. This is a phenomenon that is not new, but that we have to really start to police ourselves.
I have seen this happen before - if we do not provide rules to ourselves and follow them, someone else will come in, and govern us (like the government).
Other sports have similar approaches, such as PADI (scuba diving). They teach you to dive, provide guidelines, make you a safer diver, and thus preventing unnecessary accidents, and therefore allowing all of us to dive at WILL. In this particlar case, the government stays out of our business, and as a diver you follow "your own rules".
The time may not be that far off when the government will be fed-up with climbers, and may simply set rules and enforce rules. Once that starts, what makes you think that there could be more than 4 cars at Roadside? What about a permit to climb? What about a climbing certication to demonstrate that you are responsible?
Do we really want to limit ourselves by NOT policing ourselves? That is probably the million dollar question.
I have seen this happen before - if we do not provide rules to ourselves and follow them, someone else will come in, and govern us (like the government).
Other sports have similar approaches, such as PADI (scuba diving). They teach you to dive, provide guidelines, make you a safer diver, and thus preventing unnecessary accidents, and therefore allowing all of us to dive at WILL. In this particlar case, the government stays out of our business, and as a diver you follow "your own rules".
The time may not be that far off when the government will be fed-up with climbers, and may simply set rules and enforce rules. Once that starts, what makes you think that there could be more than 4 cars at Roadside? What about a permit to climb? What about a climbing certication to demonstrate that you are responsible?
Do we really want to limit ourselves by NOT policing ourselves? That is probably the million dollar question.
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
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Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
Fuck people and fuck groups of raging homos flying around on their gay routes. "Look at me! I climb up the rock with my hands and feet! I wear a gay harness like a little baby in a rocking chair! I look like a fucking clown wearing gay shoes and a gay strap on harness flying around like a little ferry on the big bad rocks! I'm so cool because I do the rock climbing like a big fucking homo!"
Nothing gives me a better feeling than the winter/fall when I tend to hit the backwoods and climb cracks with a couple of people. Silence, for the most part. It reminds me of why I got into climbing in the first place.........to get out into the woods and away from people and their yak-yak-yak-yak-blah-blah-blah-isentthisisentthatimetsoandsoiknowsoandsohoratiofelaciowearsabigrubberclownnoseontheendofhispenisintheshowerandgiggleslikealittlegirlwhenhesqueezesit.
But then again, I finally have been braving Left Flank with all the other sheople and have actually been having a pretty good time when there's a group of my friends there. It's cool to share beta and shit like that.
Hey Spragwa, I hate it when people yak at my belayer too. A little talk isn't bad but when they're like yak-yak-yak and taking the attention from my belayer away from me it kinda pisses me off. I always thought it was common courtesy to:
a) Don't talk to someone so much when they're belaying
b) Keep kinda quiet when someone is making a difficult redpoint attempt
One of the most respectful things I've witnessed once was when Keith Moll came up to the crag while Michelle was redpointing Skin Flute. He hadn't seen her in awhile. He saw her on the route and walked up to the base of the cliff, remaining extremely quiet...not saying "Hey ARTSAY!!!" or anything. He did not say a word. He knew, from experience, that she was in the zone and didn't need any distractions. It was pretty cool and respectful.
Nothing gives me a better feeling than the winter/fall when I tend to hit the backwoods and climb cracks with a couple of people. Silence, for the most part. It reminds me of why I got into climbing in the first place.........to get out into the woods and away from people and their yak-yak-yak-yak-blah-blah-blah-isentthisisentthatimetsoandsoiknowsoandsohoratiofelaciowearsabigrubberclownnoseontheendofhispenisintheshowerandgiggleslikealittlegirlwhenhesqueezesit.
But then again, I finally have been braving Left Flank with all the other sheople and have actually been having a pretty good time when there's a group of my friends there. It's cool to share beta and shit like that.
Hey Spragwa, I hate it when people yak at my belayer too. A little talk isn't bad but when they're like yak-yak-yak and taking the attention from my belayer away from me it kinda pisses me off. I always thought it was common courtesy to:
a) Don't talk to someone so much when they're belaying
b) Keep kinda quiet when someone is making a difficult redpoint attempt
One of the most respectful things I've witnessed once was when Keith Moll came up to the crag while Michelle was redpointing Skin Flute. He hadn't seen her in awhile. He saw her on the route and walked up to the base of the cliff, remaining extremely quiet...not saying "Hey ARTSAY!!!" or anything. He did not say a word. He knew, from experience, that she was in the zone and didn't need any distractions. It was pretty cool and respectful.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
-Horatio
-Horatio
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Wicked Tribe
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 8:25 pm
You know what I hate...
I hate when someone strings up a route (most likely a 5.10 for a 5.12 climber or a 5.8 for a 5.10 climber, etc.) at a crowded crag and then proceeds to do "training" laps on the route for hours on end. They hog up one route all day...climbing up, downclimbing, locking off in the crux, dynoing through the crux, climbing the route in their tevas, taking victory whips and then at last light of day they pull everything and say, "Hey, you guys want on this route?" Like you hadn't been sitting there waiting for it all day.
This hasn't happened to me since Tuna Boy lived around here. Man, I hated climbing at the same crag as him.
I hate when someone strings up a route (most likely a 5.10 for a 5.12 climber or a 5.8 for a 5.10 climber, etc.) at a crowded crag and then proceeds to do "training" laps on the route for hours on end. They hog up one route all day...climbing up, downclimbing, locking off in the crux, dynoing through the crux, climbing the route in their tevas, taking victory whips and then at last light of day they pull everything and say, "Hey, you guys want on this route?" Like you hadn't been sitting there waiting for it all day.
This hasn't happened to me since Tuna Boy lived around here. Man, I hated climbing at the same crag as him.
Do Not Spray Next 300 Feet
I don't mind sharing routes or sharing my gear with someone who wants to climb something I'm on. Yeah, I may have gotten there first, but if I want to work on a climb 2 -3 times, I don't mind taking a break and letting someone else have a go at it.
I do like to use my own gear...quirky, but I feel better that way.
What I find annoying is when someone wants to go ahead of you because they only have 30 minutes left to climb, but they don't realize you just got there yourself. I feel really selfish saying no, so don't. I figure I can climb for more than 30 minutes. Then... they start teaching the people they're with how to climb, clean an anchor, practice moves and technique and take an hour or more. That's not cool.
Guess I should learn to just say NO! lol
All that to say I think Pigsteak makes a good point...
I do like to use my own gear...quirky, but I feel better that way.
What I find annoying is when someone wants to go ahead of you because they only have 30 minutes left to climb, but they don't realize you just got there yourself. I feel really selfish saying no, so don't. I figure I can climb for more than 30 minutes. Then... they start teaching the people they're with how to climb, clean an anchor, practice moves and technique and take an hour or more. That's not cool.
Guess I should learn to just say NO! lol
All that to say I think Pigsteak makes a good point...