belays

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:47 pm

man, it kills me that so many people, when injured from a fall, blame the belayer immediately for their accident. a lot of times there isn't a lot the belayer can do...although a lot of times there are. anyway, in all actuality, climbing is "dangerous" and if you stay in it long enough, you're going to get hurt somehow. i wish people would just take some responsibility for their own misfortunes instead of trying to put blame on something/somebody else.

Post by **Spragwa** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:53 pm

I think there's a larger problem of inexperienced people belaying. It's not always the case but giving somebody a catch on lead when the leader is at their limit requires skill. A lot of gumbys are unaware of that.

Post by **captain static** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:48 pm

I took a lead fall once because someone took a picture of me. I was on "Crispy Critter" at Seneca and somebody popped their head out of the Old Man's notch, snapped a pic, and then zip... down I came. Seriously, a good gym belay is not a good lead belay. And that is where a lot of people are learning to belay, in the gym. On the other hand, I see a lot of clipping mistakes like skipping clips, like trying to clip too low, or taking out too much slack when clipping. Leading takes skill too.

Post by **Thrax** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:17 pm

I have noticed that most belayers are looking down at the rope as they feed it out instead of watching the leader to see if they actually make the clip. If a leader were to fall with enough rope out, they could deck. The belayer has to be ready to take it in. The belayer has to be watching the leader in order to know when to take the necessary measures to do their best to keep a leader from decking.

Post by **Meadows** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:18 pm

This wise man suggested to me to just drop all my climbers and they will never ask for another belay.

I think you're right Ho, accidents will happen and mistakes are proof of areas that need improvement. Definitely blaming the belayer only heightens the guilt he already feels.

Post by **Wicked Tribe** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:48 pm

What about the gumby girlfriend belay? Some guys shows up at the crag with his new squeeze, clips her into a gri-gri on an easy route to "practice" then after belaying her up the easy route he jumps on something a bit harder. When girlfriend shortropes him the first time he is patient. Then later he falls and hurts either himself or her and who gets blamed?

A lot of times it is the more experienced climber's responsibility to make sure they are putting themselves and their belayer in a safe situation. I don't think it is ever the belayer's "fault." Its a sketchy situation when you start throwing blame around a climbing accident. Unless you have some kind of gross negligence then the climber is at least partially if not fully to blame because they chose to let a certain person belay them. If your belayer is not experienced enough to catch any fall you may take then maybe you should forego climbing for the day or find another belayer.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

Post by **Meadows** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:10 pm

I think you just proved Ho's point.

Post by **Eric** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:28 pm

who was that wise man Meadows?

Post by **Meadows** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:09 pm

Just some long-haired, hot dude from Indiana who has the climbing skills many try to emulate and a demeanor that makes some want to cower in a corner until he leaves the room.

Post by **Eric** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:38 pm

I wouldn't want to run into him in a dark alley