anchor placement

Post by **captain static** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 pm

I am personally in favor of placing bolt anchors to save vegetation and also for safety reasons but unfortunately it is also my opinion that you will need USFS approval. My opinion is based on the following information:

Fixed anchors are small metal devises used in the sport of rock climbing which are drilled or pounded into the faces of cliffs to enable ascent and/or decent of a cliff, mountain, or boulder. They can take the form of nylon slings, bolts, or pitons. Typically, these anchors are placed by the first ascent party and then are used by other climbers for an indefinite period of time (USDA 1999).

All new fixed anchor and bolt installation on the Stanton District must receive prior approval of the District Ranger.

Also the following applies to the particular location of which you speak:

Limit climbing on Tower Rock or Eagles Peak to allow vegetation to recover.

The last two quotes are from the DBNF website - http://www.southernregion.fs.fed.us/boone/rockclimb.htm If you want to take this any further I suggest you contact the Stanton District Ranger. Good luck, I currently have an application in for several new sport routes and trad routes w/top anchors. I have been told directly by the Stanton District Ranger that it will be at least two years after the Revised Forest Plan is approved before my application will be able to be considered.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:51 pm

the FS allows for the replacement of existing/fixed anchors. I do believe they accept a liberal definition of "fixed anchors" on established routes.

Post by **Johnny** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:28 pm

I disagree. The chances of the FS approving a bolt in a wilderness area are nil, even if you used a hand drill. Dog Days is in wilderness.

Even replacing existing bolts requires checking in with the FS first. I don't think that putting bolts where a "tree" anchor exists is what they have in mind when they ackowledge "maintenance" or "replacement" of bolts.

Since Dog Days has no convenient tree to rap off of anyway, how are anchors going to minimize damage to vegetation? Just top out on the ledge and rap off the existing rap anchors. Installing anchors on that route would simply be for convenience and to avoid the dirt moves.

Post by **the lurkist** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:43 pm

John is right. Tower is in Wilderness and is something of a sore point with the FS. It was closed to climbing for a time not too long ago.
On an ethical note, in my opinion, placing anchors on trad routes that have had historically a tradition top out merely to convenience the climber is a dumbing down of the genre.
Applying sport climbing methods to trad climbing is a slippery slope. There is a line in the dirt, and putting anchors to avoid the dirt grovel crosses that line.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:12 pm

I didn't know the specifics of Dog Days, that it is in the Wilderness or that it has rap anchors. Since it has rap anchors, I'm not sure why anyone would even consider putting bolts on it.

What about established routes with fixed gear for anchors that are somewhat unsafe? For example Attack of the Sandshark at Left Flank. Can that fixed gear be replaced with a bolted anchor without prior approval, or does it have to go through the long (seemingly endless, multi-year) approval process just like new routes? Is there a shorter process in place for the replacement of bad bolts and anchors on previously approved FS routes?

Post by **Bruisebrother** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:01 am

Sandy you need to get out more! The Shark is at Phantasia! And to all concerned: Dog Days don't need no stinking bolts!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:17 am

Bruisebrother wrote:Sandy you need to get out more! The Shark is at Phantasia! And to all concerned: Dog Days don't need no stinking bolts!

true on all 3 points! I knew that, really... damned old age.

So does anyone have an answer? Is there a different approval process for replacing fixed anchors, or is it the same as the new route application process?

Post by **strum** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:10 am

I believe that replacing old dead bolts does not have to go through the full process (think ARI).

However if you want to put drill to rock on a previously unbolted rute, you must file for approvement by the FS

those are the regulations as I understand them

Post by **Wicked Tribe** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:11 pm

Having talked to a few FS personel it seems from their point of view that there is a broad definition of what constitutes and anchor and that replacement of anchors is left up to climber discretion. When the language says new bolts it is most likely in reference to a previously unclimbed route, not maintaining or upgrading an existing route.

Having said that: I see three situations where bolts should be added to a trad climb.

1) To replace fixed metal gear with nylon components, i.e. hexes or cams. If you use old gear to rap from, why not upgrade them to safer bolts?

2) When the existing anchors are too far off route and a temporary anchor cannot be built. Five Finger Discount has rap anchors way off to the side, but you can built a pretty solid and convenient top rope anchor directly over the crack. If you could not build an anchor there I would say that that route fits #2.

3) Existing natural anchors have degraded into dangerous conditions. It the anchor tree falls, the slung boulder shifts or is trundled, or the rhodo is damaged by forest fire, then maybe pemanent fixed hardwear should be considered.

This is my opinion only and does not take into consideration the wilderness area. I have my own opinions about anchors in the wilderness but I don't think I will discuss them here in public.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:33 pm

WT, your interpretation of the regulations regarding anchors on established (aka approved) routes is exactly what I've been led to believe is acceptable to the FS (excluding the Wilderness area).