It ain't over

Post by **rhunt** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:43 pm

ok my two cents..

First off I am in total support of the rrgcc and this purchase.

I have faith that Shannon et at did their homework before considering the purchase but I don't understand why they did not see this parking thing a being I major problem..oh well we'll fix it.

I think that if we did nothing and never bought the land we still be climbing there for a least a couple of years...I climbed at drive by/oil crack etc for at least 3 year without any problems with charmane. Chamane only cares NOW because we own it and they are irrationally afriad we will affect their bottom line, the all mighty dollar. I don't think it's any secrete that Charmane made a counter offer to the Murrays to puchase the land as soon as they discovered the RRGCC was serious about buying it. So in a way buying the land has caused this current access issue but of course not buying it would mean eventual closure of the land for ever...now we just need to be patient and will have secure access for ever!

Post by **the lurkist** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:06 pm

regardless of who didn't do what, we now have the tiger by the tail and we have to deal with it. the rrgcc is the best resource for following through. Charmane's case is a loser. With any scrutiiny they loose. Can we hang on long enough to see that eventual end?

Post by **charlie** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:25 pm

jefflehmkuhl's dumbass signature wrote: and the RRGCC does what for climbing in the red?

Seriously dude, there's no way you're that clueless. Do you not remember when everything was about to be shut down not so many years ago? When all development was completely stopped and walls were gonna be closed? After the MOU things have improved dramatically. If it weren't for the RRGCC all climbing would have been closed in DBNF proper years ago. That's ALL climbing, walls developed in the 70's would be dead now. We'd still have the lode and southern region (or maybe not) and Morehead though. That's plenty now ain't it?

Also, unless you have actually been involved with any land purchases and surveys then you don't have a clue how difficult these things are. Who are you to judge about homework? You've done this how many times exactly? Should we have let you take care of this stuff for us instead?

Post by **rhunt** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:24 pm

alright ease up on Jeff, Charlie, it wasn't until about 4 weeks ago that we could get ANY info from the RRGCC about how things are going. He's missed informed and justifiably upset at the current closure of the Murray property, give him a chance to do HIS homework and I am sure we'll have a different perspective.

We need people like Jeff to keep the rrgcc on their toes, do you expect everyone to kiss the RRGCC ass...the work of the rrgcc is a thanks job.

And most importantly he is entitled to his opinion

Post by **dhoyne** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:40 pm

I think another thanks need to go out to the Webers for their huge land purchase. At least we can climb there (once some routes are established!).

Post by **charlie** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:41 pm

I totally agree, everyone gets their opinion. But to seriously think the RRGCC hasn't done anything, that just bugs me. I've also worked with another non-profit that deals with land aquisitions and it more often than not takes years to complete a purchase. I don't think a little patience is too much to ask but maybe I'm a little gunshy because of all the other threads trashing the RRGCC lately. I offer my apologies to Jeff, it's bad form to come off so harsh.

<typical scapegoat>I'm really very lovable in person, the internet just makes me look mean.</scapegoat>

Post by **Johnny** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:45 pm

Ugh.... Please gather facts first, then form opinions. This gets tiresome.

Post by **tomdarch** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:40 am

Johnny wrote:Please gather facts first, then form opinions.

Huh? You mean that life isn't gonna spoon feed me?

Post by **tomdarch** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:42 am

captain static wrote:I was there in Frankfort marching against the dam.

Thanks! Rumor has it there's lots more would-be climbing in southern Illinois that is currently underwater. (Just try getting it back from the fishermen! Ha!)

Post by **tomdarch** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:49 am

Alan Evil wrote:There should be a Federal review of all mineral rights in Appalachia. These rights were bought for a pittance in the 1800's and early 1900's from poor, uneducated people who never thought they'd be barred from their own land or, worse, that their land would be mined using strip mining or mountain top removal techniques. At the time mining was only done via tunnels and oil drilling wasn't an issue. Of course the Bush administration has made it easier for the rich bastards that run this country to turn the entire continent into a wasteland with no regard for watersheds, habitat, or the owners of the land.

Just be glad that you don't own a house in coal country in places like Pennsylvania. There's a technique called "long walling" where large areas of coal seams are removed and the void is allowed to collapse behind the equipment. This causes uneven surface subsidence that does everything from wrecking houses to drying up centuries old streams. It's insane that this is allowed to happen, but here were are.

I love the new oil industry PR ads that describe their activities as "recovering resources".