Online guidebook

Post by **Gretchen** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:31 pm

Very solid point Capt. There certainly is opportunity for other groups w/hidden adgendas to either ride our coat tails or to step on them!

ray · Post by **ray** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:35 pm

So why is it that the existing routes in the 2nd edition were allowed to be published but any new ones weren't?
What was the cutoff year? How do they know the "new" routes weren't climbed six years ago and are just now being published?

ray · Post by **ray** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:45 pm

Just what I thought.
I'm not gonna "take it in the ass" from the NFS like the RRGCC does.

Pru · Post by **Pru** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:56 pm

God told me to share the good Word. Ray, you need to do the same.
PUBLISH THE ROUTES!
Amen.

Post by **Artsay** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:39 pm

All of you'ins are getting worked up over extremely silly stuff. Ray is *just* creating a database of RRG routes; Nothing more, nothing less. And he/we sure as hell aren't going to publish anything with our measly incomes. It takes a whole lot of money to publish a guidebook! What Ray is doing is solely for his own personal use and he is generously sharing it with the public. He's put hours into it, tens of hours by the time he's done, with barely anyone's help. I don't hear anyone out there offering to help input the data. So if too much crap comes of it he could very easily just limit who sees it. It's that simple. In fact, from what I hear in this thread all ready, that seems to be the direction it's going in.

Post by **climbhigh** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:11 pm

This type of debate has been going on for years. Im a participating member in the RRGCC and have put many hours doing vol work. But I really dont see the FS or any other groups spying on our online chats or guides just to do us in. Maybe Im wrong. Keep it up Ray, its a good source of info.

Post by **tsparks** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:40 pm

Does someone police the routes that are entered into the routes database on rockclimbing.com? Does someone contact them and have them remove unapproved routes? If not then why should ray be restricted about what he posts?

Ray, I appreciate all of your work and I can't wait until the guidebook is finished and I would be very disappointed if your routes weren't in it.

Post by **Gretchen** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:50 pm

I am not trying to get on anyone's ass. I think that it is a wonderful thing to have as a resource!

I wish that access issues were not an issue. But I am not niave in thinking that my actions do not cause reaction. Believe it or not but EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA. Unfortuantely some of those people do not have the best interest in climbing in mind. We do have lurches that are sucking up any scrap of information that can and will be used against us. I believe in running a "clean as possible" campaign.

If you are comfortable publishing, which is what you do when putting it on a public website, there may or may not be repercussion to the act that may impact relationships that have taken a long time to build.

Just something to think about.

ray · Post by **ray** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:16 pm

So why weren't these questions answered?
=========
So why is it that the existing routes in the 2nd edition were allowed to be published but any new ones weren't?
What was the cutoff year? How do they know the "new" routes weren't climbed six years ago and are just now being published?
===========
Also, Mr Get it on Jones was attempted many times and climbed with the use of aid during the past 15 years by different people before I freed it. Sounds like a well established route to me. Why can't this be published?

Post by **Artsay** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:21 pm

Maybe Ray is just not being naive by thinking his actions will cause a reaction. By taking creative steps forward in life you become a leader, not a follower. The way I see it, every route, website, online guidebook...whatever...Ray is a part of he is adding to the RRG climbing community and positive relationship of the climbers and land owners, FS, etc. by demonstrating our interest and persistance to pursue climbing. It's a shame it has to be such a battle.

My favorite quote is: "People are always blaming their circumstances for what the are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances the want and if they can't find them, make them." -George Bernard Shaw

I believe in those words %100.